PMO Adrenal fatigue/Sexual exhaustion recovery guide:

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by Invictus23, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    This is a quick guide which will show you the best way to recover from adrenal fatigue or sexual exhaustion

    Symptoms of both of these are similar, because they are basically the same thing with different root causes:

    - Low energy, especially in mornings

    - Brain fog, highly difficult to get up and out of bed

    - Joint and muscle aches and pains

    - Changes in appearance such as; droopy eyelids, worsening of dark circles, face becoming gaunt and facial bloating in the wrong places, unwanted weight loss, skin looks unhealthy, more prone to zits, hair loss, dilated pupils

    - Fibromyalgia symptoms: random wide spread pains and aches

    - IBS symptoms; stomach pain and bloating after meals, constipation, diarrhoea, indigestion, heartburn etc..

    - Depression

    - Really high levels of anxiety, especially about health and in social situations

    - Cognitive problems; Inability to think clearly, think too slowly, loss of sense of humour and intelligence, memory problems - especially short term

    - Tinnitus: ringing in ears

    -Eye floaters

    - TMJ: Headaches and facial pains

    - Sexual problems; Loss of libido, can't get aroused like you used to, premature ejactulation, prostatitis, want to have sex and or PMO out of impulse and not actual desire

    - Low self esteem

    - Body dismorphia; sometimes look in the mirror and have Obsessive thoughts about your appearance such as thinking you look weird or having a distorted perception of yourself - often that other people don't notice or that you never used to notice

    - Obsessive compulsive disorder; In general

    - ADHD or ADD: can't focus, can't make it through a movie or tv show, need to get up and move around

    - Sleep problems; Struggle to fall asleep even though you are very tired, keep waking up during the night or can't get back to sleep, feel that the sleep quality is very low

    - Heart palipations and missed heartbeats

    - Muscle cramps and muscle spasms

    - Intolerance to stress; Even the smallest of stressors makes your heart race, you feel itchy all over and turn red in the face, sometimes you act out and feel you are going to have a nervous breakdown

    - Snap easily and turn aggressive over nothing

    - Constant racing and invading thoughts

    - Startle easily

    - Feeling faint or weak, dizzy when standing for a long time or standing up too fast from sitting or lying

    - Nausea

    - Sensitivity to bright light and muscle pains in eyes

    - Pins and needles and shooting pains in arms, carpal tunnel in wrists

    - Feel passive and want everyone to like you, won't stand up for yourself

    - Break out in hives from time to time or other allergic reactions

    - High TSH on thyroid blood test but no improvement with medication

    - Crave fat, salty and sweet foods

    - Frequent urination, fluids pass straight through you

    - Feel dehydrated despite drinking plenty of water

    - Sensitive to the cold and to heat

    - Decreased pain threshold, minor things cause you pain

    That is not even a complete list but these are all the symptoms I have experienced over the past 4 years, that a lot of other people experience and don't fully understand.

    What is going on?

    Put simply, your body is in a state of chronic stress.

    The cause can be anything from poor sleep, excessive caffeine, work stress, poor diet, over exercise, PMO addiction or other addictions and basically any combination of stressors that overwhelm your ability to cope with them.

    This leads to neurotransmitter and hormonal imbalances, an over-activation of the sympathetic nervous system (chronic fight of flight/stress response) and ultimately adrenal fatigue.


    Low serotonin, low dopamine, low GABA, low acetylcholine, low or excessively high cortisol (or unnatural rises and falls - high in the evening, low in the morning), low testosterone levels and other androgens, estrogen dominance, loss of collagen, elevated glutamate, histamine and adrenaline, inflammation, reduced immune system function, elevated prolactin and prostaglandin E2, nerve damage, lowered hydrochloric stomach acid, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, hypogylcemia, hypo/hyperthyroidism etc..

    It is far more complicated then that but that is the basics of it and it will be somehwhat different between adrenal fatigue and sexual exhaustion which will present with other things such as erectile dsyfunction and alterations to dopamine D2 receptors and delta fos b.

    Recovery guide:

    Here is a 3 month recovery guide. You should be able to fully recover in 3 months if you attack it from various angles:

    Step 1; No PMO and no sex

    Step 2; After 2-3 weeks of no PMO, gradually quit caffeine.

    If you drink 4 teaspoons a day of coffee for example;

    Day 1: 3 teaspoons coffee

    Day 2: 3 teaspoons

    Day 3: 2 teaspoons

    Day 4: 1 teaspoon and 1 cup of tea

    Day 5: 1 teaspoon and 1 cup of tea

    Day 6: 1 cup of tea

    And then from there you should be ok with just 1 cup of tea a day or you can replace it with decaff tea or decaff coffee.

    Don't drink caffeine within 12 hours of sleep.

    Step 3: Sleep plan

    The following sleep times and quantity is optimal for recovery:

    9pm - 7am

    or at the latest 11pm - 9am

    You will need to get at least 8 hours sleep a night but if you provide your body with 10 hours sleep, it will have a surplus and will do extra healing, which will involve correcting all of the symptoms above.

    Sleep is incredibly powerful and with 10 hours of sleep from 9pm - 7am, I would go as far as to say that it would halve the recovery time compared to someone who isn't getting enough sleep.

    These times of night are highly important as this is when the most healing and restoration will take place.

    If you have an out of sync circadian rhythm it will take a few nights of you to get a real increase in sleep quality but be patient and stick to the plan.

    It is important to get to sleep before 11pm as from 11pm onwards, your body will pump out more stress hormones to keep you awake until about 1am. This will really sabotage your sleep quality and will further strain your adrenal glands.

    How to get to sleep:

    Step 1: A sacrifice night;

    If you simply can't fall asleep at this time, you will need to do a sacrifice night.

    To do this, get up at 7am, no matter what time you got to sleep - which should be easier with the No PMO reducing brain fog and increasing your energy levels

    Then limit caffeine intake on this day to just 1 cup of tea or 1 tea spoon of coffee to make sure you can fall asleep by 9pm.

    It is best to do this at the weekend or on a day off because you will feel like shit.

    Step 2: Light therapy

    Now that you have corrected your sleep pattern to 9pm - 7am, the next day you will need to get up at 7am and go outside for about 30 minutes.

    This will help reset your biological clock and will make it easier to fall asleep at night time.

    In the evenings you will need to avoid light as much as possible, install flux onto your computer so that you limit the blue light if you must use it.

    Reading with a night lamp or being in darkness would be better.

    Step 3: No PMO and caffeine reduction:

    By this stage you will have quit caffeine and be 2-3 weeks into no pmo. This will help tremendously.

    The no pmo will lead to; increases in GABA, serotonin, acetyl choline - basically in parasympathetic nervous system function and control.

    A normalising of cortisol and cortisol being higher in the morning and lower in the evening.

    A decrease in adrenaline, especially in the evenings.

    More balanced dopamine levels - less highs and lows.

    Step 4: Wind down:

    You will need relaxing routines in the evening from about 6pm to help transition your body into sleep.

    Eat your last full meal by 7pm, consciously slow your breathing and meditate if you fancy, watch a comedy or something that relaxes you etc..

    Step 5: Exercise in the morning or early afternoon:

    Exercise reduces stress toxins, releases endorphins, reduces tension, balance neurotransmitters and ultimately relaxes you.

    The best advice is to exercise in the morning to also get the early morning sunlight exposure and avoid exercise within 4 hours of bed as it can be stimulating.

    Step 6: Supplements - as mentioned below

    Step 7: Sleep hypnosis - try listening to a sleep hypnosis cd when you go to bed, this will alter brainwaves and uses NLP to reprogram your subconscious mind - you could pair this with one for porn recovery; they can be found free online

    Step 8: Balance blood sugar:

    Have a snack containing a low GI carb, fat and protein just before bed. This will keep your blood sugar even whilst you sleep and will prevent you waking up due to a cortisol spike.

    Step 4: Supplements:

    For pmo recovery, adrenal recovery and to help caffeine withdrawal and for those with nutrient deficient diets

    * Zinc 100 mg for first week, 50 mg a day second week, 25 mg a day third week onwards

    * Fish oil; Aim for at least 500mg EPA and DHA. Alternatively have cod liver oil which also has Vitamin A for eye health, testosterone levels etc..

    * L tyrosine or Mucuna pruriens instead of coffee.

    Try 3 g tyrosine working up to 6 g, try mucuna with a content of 200 - 250 mg L dopa

    Do 5 days on, 2 days off to avoid tolerance

    Multi vitamin; Standard one every day

    Vitamin C; Take first thing in the morning or on an empty stomach, important to take it when there is no fat present in the stomach.

    Try a dose of 3-6 g, reduce if you get diarrhoea

    Vitamin E and selenium: Try almonds and brazil nuts

    Vitamin D3: 5,000 - 10,000 iu a day

    B vitamin complex and pantethine: pantethine is really food for adrenal function

    Pregnenolone: Try a low dose, 5-10 mg, working up to 25-50 mg. This is not for a testosterone boost, it is for adrenal hormone production and balancing.

    DHEA is an option also if you are in the later stages of adrenal fatigue, for this try magnesium oil or transdermal DHEA, or a sublingual or a tablet in doses of up to 50mg.

    Adapatogens; try ashwagandha, rhodiola rhosea, siberiang ginseng, Maca etc..

    5 days on, 2 days off.

    I personally have gone for Ashwagandha (sensoril) as it has the best evidence backing it.

    250-500mg a day.

    For improved sleep ( quicker to fall asleep, better quality);

    Magnesium; tablets 500-1,000mg 2 hrs before bed or magnesium oil 350 mg, 1 hr before bed.

    L tryptophan or5 Htp: 100-200 mg, either 90 minutes before bed or in divided doses - one in late afternoon, one 90 minutes before bed

    L theanine: Take in divided doses, take with any caffeine to negate the bad effects, take in late afternoon and 1 hr before bed to help wind you down and relax you. It also boosts sleep quality.

    Try doses of 200 mg, up to 400 mg a day.

    GABA: GABA itself doesn't cross the blood brain barrier escept in high amount but some people say it works for them ( probably due to a compromised blood brain barrier).

    I personally avoid it because it can have the opposite effect and I find L theanine is better.

    Phosphatidylserine: For high nighttime cortisol

    Melatonin: Helps is serotonin is low and I find it works better for sleep inducing and quality than 5 htp, but they work in unison.

    Try 1-3 mg melatonin, 1 hr before bed.

    You can try cycling: Phenibut ( 1 day a week max), An anti-histamine ( such as night nurse or night nurse) 2 days a week (not in a row) max

    or if you go to the doctor, either Valium or low dose (10-20mg) Amitryptiline works well but can make it difficult to wake up.

    Save these "sleep drugs" for nights that you know you have a solid block fof 10 hours sleep available.

    If you can't get to sleep after all this, then PM me and I will help you further.

    Supplements for increasing testosterone:

    Don't add these in until after about the first 4 weeks, you shouldn't need them at all but they can help you achieve an optimal testosterone level if that is what you desire.

    * High quality nettle root; Look for an extract that contains a decent % of divanil ( 3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran )

    This has been shown to bind to SHBG instead of testosterone, thus it frees up the amount of active or free testosterone that you can use- which is the most important

    * High quality Tongkat ali: This has actually been proven to increase testosterone in the region of 35% whilst decreasing stress hormones, lowering estrogen and increasing free testosterone in a similar way to divanil.

    It works best in people who are undergoing stress and it is best used for people who have a fast paced lifestyle; work stress, high achievers etc.. to keep their testosterone levels high under stress.

    * Acetyl L carnitine: This increases androgen receptors by around 20% and thus means more testosterone can bind to receptors

    * Vitamin A and k2 : Work synergestically to increase testosterone.

    Vitamin k2 is rare in modern diets.

    Vitamin A must be in retinol form ( vitamin A in carrots must convert into retinol) so that it can cross the blood testis barrier and increase testosterone production

    * D aspartic acid: Studies show increases of testosterone by 40% within 12 days. This is a hit or a miss supplement, it either doesn't work at all or it works very well

    * Estrogen and aromatase blockers:

    Brassaiopsis glomerulata extract, DIM ( removes unwanted etrogens), Chrysin ( questionable), Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione ( definitely works, is a suicide aromatase inhibitor, the increases in testosterone are questionable though).

    Resveratrol and Chrysin are a couple of others.

    * Magnesium 750 mg paired with exercise boosts free testosterone, Zinc acts as an aromatase inhibitor and at high doses boosts free testosterone even without deficiency.

    * Fish oil increases testosterone signalling (LH) and increases free testosterone

    * Transdermal DHEA boosts testosterone ( but may shut down natural production over time), tablets are much less effective

    If anyone wants any more information on boosting testosterone through diet, sunlight, cooling the testicles, avoiding xenoestrogens, sexual frequency (once healed), liver detox etc., mucsle building and fat loss and other lifestyle changes then let me know.


    No pmo, the sleep plan and no ( or very little) caffeine should be followed religiously for the next 3 months.

    Other changes would include; no alcohol, drinking several pints of water a day with a little sea salt ( to enhance hydration and aldosterone), a healthy diet, plenty of sunlight etc..

    After 3 months:

    You should be fully healed. I truly believe that if this plan is followed it will work like a charm.

    Supplements are optional and whilst they will help they are not necessary, a good diet would be an alternative with:

    plenty of protein ( for neurotransmitter precursors) regular meals ( to stabilise blood sugar and make it easier to digest), limit gluten and other food allergy sources, eat 5 servings and a variety of vegetables - try juicing. Eat healthy fats and add olive oil to foods, eat plenty of low GI carbs and aim for a slight calorie surplus.

    Try salmon and other fatty fish for omega 3, almonds for vitamin E, Brazil nuts for selenium, Seaweed for iodine, Liver for vitamin A and a few others, sunlight for vitamin D3, spinach, brown rice and dark chocolate for magnesium, meat and oysters for zinc, kale and other green veg for vitamin k, sauerkraut and fermented foods for vitamin k2, carrots, tomatoes, peppers for carotenoids, plenty of different veg for antioxidants, broccoli for natural anti estrogens, olive oil for cholesterol and to help you body utilise cholesterol better, fortified cereals for b vitamins and eggs, eggs for choline - an acetylcholine precursor, green veg and fruit for vitamin c etc..

    After the 3 months are up, reintroduce masturbation without porn, 1-2 x a week.

    My plan is to masturbate without porn once a week and that way I will get the testosterone boost on the 7th day which on believe is good for the Hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis.

    My plan is to go clubbing and try and get laid on the 7th day to take advantage of the testosterone boost, this means:

    higher pheromone output, increased confidence and pick up skills, better dancing (google it) and greater sexual endurance and pleasure.

    This approach has worked well for me in the past, infact I picked up the hottest girl I have had sex wth on the 7th day T spike.

    I didn't even have to do anything, they can pick up on the elevated testosterone levels, either through pheromones, body language, subtle facial changes, saliva exchange etc..


    That's the guide, hopefully it helps people in a similar situation to me.


    If you get a gf after the 3 months are up, limit ejaculation to 2-3 x per week and practice Karezza with her to prevent coolidge effect/passion cycle dopamine lows after the high of orgasm.
  2. grego

    grego Member

    Good idea with the sleep suggestion, I thought I was the only one who did that. Do you think smoking weed would harm progress?
  3. Complex

    Complex Member

    I did that for 3 months with no caffine or sugar. and still fuck all energy.
    i think theres a couple of factors playing (anxiety, lifestyle) but naturally I'm very laid back and quite lazy.
    People are different. I definitely think i should be more motivated and have more energy. Whether ill get that through healing i dont know.

    I deffo have dopamine problems. might have other minor neurotransmitter problems too. Ive supplemented Rhodiola for a while and take it sometimes. Like you said thats an adaptogen (manages stress) but do you think i should try
    L- tyrosine? I think my receptors could be ok maybe not. but the supplements I've taken were meant to restore them. So maybe i just need dopamine... i dont know whether taking things like Rhodiola were the best for creating more dopamine.
  4. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    It might help at first with the dopamine lows but in the long run it wouldn't hinder it but it would be another addiction to deal with.
  5. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    What exactly did you do during that 3 months? How much pmo, sleep, what supplements etc..?

    Some people are naturally laid back and these are the people who become adrenaline junkies for the dopamine fix.

    If you let me know what you did during those 3 months then I can make some suggestions.
  6. Complex

    Complex Member

    During those 3 months i cut out sugar, bread , wheat, salt (small bit), caffein. i went on a low carb for a while just too see would i get more energy because i was eating a lot of carbs.

    Supplements: Ive been taking co enzyme B Complex in high amounts because i was quite low in b12. Vitamin D3/K2: i took 10,000 iu and 2mg of k2. I went on an iodine detox for 3 months didn't feel better or worse. Took nootropics and took DMAE.. i also took CDP Choline before. Im on my 3rd bottle of Rholdiola and 5-htp. only occasionally take it now. I took pycogenol , L- Arginine , acetyl l carnitine, ginseng and a load of other shit you should be taking.

    I got 7-8 hours sleep a night got up very early went college. I exercised regularly and i eat very healthy.
    Over the last month i slipped and I'm trying to get my sleeping pattern back, i kind of eat what i want but healthy enough.

    PMO: absolutely none. 13 months without any of it. Im still healing so I'm hoping as time goes on ill get better.

    Motivation wise im so bad. Like it takes me weeks to clean my room.. I've often left it for months and it was like hoarders haha.

    Im getting over bad anxiety so my conscious subliminally might not want me to get out in life fully and just overall making me lazy. I used to shelter away from my problems with porn.

    So i dont know man any help with be nice. Im gonna get blood tests done after the new year.
  7. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    Sounds like you made some decent changes.

    This was more or less a shotgun approach which isn't bad necessarily.

    Ok, so cutting out sugar, wheat and caffeine is good and over 3 months you would have got past any withdrawals for that.

    However if you don't have a wheat allergy and if you don't go crazy on sugar or caffeine it might well not have made any significant difference.

    If you have adrenal problems you don't want to cut out salt, your adrenal glands need salt to make aldosterone and you will get more energy crashes if you go on a low salt diet, especially if you have more potassium.

    Low carb is in my opinion a myth and not good for you. You will feel like crap on low carbs, plenty of low GI carbs is best. Carbs are probably the best food source of energy and if you cut out sugar too then you would have been relying on carbs for that energy.

    B12 you might need injections if you were low, if you have digestion problems then you might not be able to actually digest and utilise the B12. I would go and get another blood test for this and if it's still low, try injections.

    Vitamin D3 and k2 are good so you like don't have a problem there or with other B vitamins.

    I'm not familiar with an iodine detox so I can't comment there.

    Which nootropics?

    Sounds like you don't have an acetyl choline deficiency then.

    I don't find Rhodiloa to be that great personally but it depends what you were using it for, if it was for dopamine increase then it's not really that effective.

    Also sounds like you don't have problems with serotonin if you have tried 3 bottles of 5 HTP.

    L arginine is good for HGH and nitric oxide which you should have enough of, how old are you?

    Acetyl l carnitine is good for testosterone receptors but you may not have had a problem with the receptors to begin with, we usually have an abundance of receptors - this is why anabolic steroids work. I also believe we are capable of forming new receptors when demand is increased but I'd have to double check that.

    Ginseng depends on the form, siberian and panax are good.

    The sleep one is important. How do you feel when you wake up? If you don't feel full of energy and you aren't leaping out of bed, then get more sleep.

    I feel like shit on 8 hours sleep. If you have adrenal problems or are heavily sleep deprived, you will need 10 hours sleep a night for a week or two - that surplus is important for your recovery.

    If that doesn't work, then sleep likely isn't a problem for you.

    Try 9pm - 7am.

    It doesn't sound like your problems are from PMO then. Whatever issues are from PMO are probably long gone.

    However if you still had sex/masturbated and orgasmed during this time then you might still be sexually exhausted ( if you ever were).

    Low motivation to me sounds like a dopamine problem.

    If you are recovering from the anxiety, it sounds like you have made at least some progress.

    Here is what I would do if it was me in your situation ( based on what I know from what you have said):

    1. Get 10 hours sleep a night for 1 week and see if you feel any better 9pm - 7am or close to those times.

    2. Reintroduce masturbation without porn or sex, once a week - If you have gone 13 months without all three, your HPTA could have shut down.

    3. Eat a calorie maintenance or slight surplus - don't cut out carbs, have balanced fats ( healthy; nuts, olive oil/ olives, coconut, avocados, fatty fish, some saturated/ animal fat, eggs etc.. Protein from meat, eggs, nuts etc.. Carbohydrates - low GI; vegetables and some fruits, oatmeal, brown rice or long grain rice, sweet potato etc..

    4. I would personally want blood tests for:

    Thryoid ( T3 and T4), Adrenal function ( cortisol, DHEA over 12-24 hrs), Testosterone levels ( total and free).

    I would also get a Vitamin B test done - Vit 12 etc.. and get a full blood count which will see if there are actually any noticeable general issues such as inflammation or infection ( elevated white blood cells).

    If you haven't been tested for STD's it might be worth doing that just in case ( you never know).

    Testing for neurotransmitters it trickier and if you are unable to get it done then try this questionnaire which will give you a decent idea of where your levels of dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine and GABA are at.

    Try the deficiency section:

    I suspect that you have low dopamine and low testosterone levels.

    They are connected as testosterone stimulates dopamine release which is how it exerts some of its psychological actions and dopamine stimulates testosterone release by lowering prolactin and increasing HGH which somewhat controls STAR ( steroid acute regulatory hormone) and the rate of testosterone production.

    Dopamine also stimulates LH release which tells the testicles to produce testosterone.

    The good news is that if it is a testosterone or dopamine problem I should be able to help you boost it.

    Of course there could be a cause that needs treatment such as a varicocele in the testicles, or an issue in the pituitary or hypothalamus.

    If dopamine is the key problem then it could be an issue with receptors or something else.

    Good luck and let me know
  8. Complex

    Complex Member

    How are you doing PMO wise and energy man ?

    I didn't have any withdrawals and only minor cravings. Ive drank tea all my life and it was easy giving it up.

    Yea your right it isn't causing any problems and theres no point in missing out on the things i like if they're not causing problems.

    I forgot to mention i did a b12 protocol. "Fredd's" protocl to be exact. heres a link.
    I drinking a table spoon of salt a day for a while for "detox"

    If you haven't heard its about people having low b12 and just having no energy etc and methlation problems.

    My folate levels were grand so it might of just been b12. I was gonna get injections but he only had cyanocobalamin which is the worst and cheap shit. I want Methylcobalamin injections but where to get?.

    I had very high potassium. like it was like 50 was the highest and i was 50.

    Funnily enough i definitely had a choline deficiency thats why i took DMAE. It literally felt like there was no fuel (blood) flowing in my brain. It was constant and as soon as i started taking it was getting consistant blood flow:)

    I took Vinpoctine and Huperzine A and did nothing really. Was a bit euprhoic after taking it once but that was it.

    Im 23 and i focused on nitric oxide and libido supplements for a while so i think I'm good.

    Are you meant to be full of energy when you wake up!? i can't remember ever being like that. My sleep pattern is fucked now but at a time it was good so i dont know.. maybe i need more than 8.

    My anxiety has come a long way so i know it just needs time. I read that you should bring normal masturbation back in eventually but i done this only a few times at 3 months. It was too early for me and didn't help.

    When i go to smoke a joint i get extremely anxious and shakey and Im like to for while until i calm down. i know weed affects dopamine thats why i suspect problems. Its like my brain is warning me to keep my from agitating it further.

    I never had this problem and only on reboot did anxiety hit the roof. My theory is i stopped feeding my habit (PMO), went cold turkey. The impact was huge and it has been basically an open wound/war zone inside my brain trying to heal while getting withdrawals at the same time. I feel its finally settling down (fire is nearly out)

    I can bet my testosterone levels aren't what a guy in his 20's should be.

    My thyroid is fine and probably better after iodine. Adrenal i will definitely get tested. The thing about getting testosterone checked and if something is wrong theres not much to do other than exercise or T therapy which i would rather not do.

    I think ill try another dopamine supplement.

    Thanks so much for your post i really do appreciate it .. we need more people like you :D lol
  9. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    I'm getting better.

    I'm on day 8 at the moment, typically by day 14 I have great improvements in brain fog, moderate improvements in energy and motivation but it depends on how my sleep routine is as well.

    No PMO after the 2-3 week mark is really useful for sticking to a sleep routine as I find it much easier to get out of bed, even with less sleep and to fall asleep easier.

    Lol, tea is fine as the l theanine in it counteracts the caffeine but I wouldn't have too much of it.

    I got my B12 tested and it was in optimal ranges - I was taking a B vitamin complex that has excessive amounts of all B vitamins.

    Ah, I see, so more salt.

    One of my mates had B12 injections because he was tired all the time and was getting neuropathic pains.

    Yeah, I'd get the best quality.

    You could try sublingual B12 which will go straight into your blood stream and bypass the digestive tract - similar to injections.

    If you have your mindset on the injections and your current doctor won't give you them then I'd find another doctor.

    That's probably ok for potassium because there needs to be a ratio between sodium and potassium so having the salt detox will have increased your sodium levels.

    I bet a lot of people have a choline deficiency actually, one of the only foods I've heard of with it in is eggs.

    What do Vinpoctine and Huperzine A do?

    Yeah, if you get rock hard erections and have good blood flow - visible veins etc.. you know your nitric oxide is good.

    Yeah I used to feel full of energy when I was at my healthiest.

    It felt like you are fully of energy yet at the same time there is no anxiety or restlessness, you feel really calm and relaxed, it's amazing how I took it for granted.

    Yeah, I'd definitely be getting more sleep if I were you. Just try 10 hrs a night for about a week, getting to sleep by 11 at the latest, you might be surprised. Sleep quality is important too though.

    I suppose you could still be goign through healing from PMO, if your addiction was that bad.

    I'm not sure about that, weed mimics dopamine or something similar. I don't know the exact reason that weed makes you feel like that but just listen to your body, if you feel like it's a bad idea stop it until you can handle it.

    An example of this, is when I used to think of exercise like running or weightlifting, I used to feel physically sick - my body was telling me not to do it.

    As I've healed and improved, I can think about intense exercise and feel OK about it but I still feel a bit shit when I do it.

    Whilst you do need a test to know if you your testosterone levels are low for sure, I could get a pretty good idea where they are from asking you a few questions.

    I've been researching testosterone levels for years since discovering mine were low due to chronic stress.

    The range for testosterone levels is typically measured in ng/dl on a blood test.

    Low is considered to be below about 300 ng/dl and high is considered to be above around 700 ng/dl, anywhere between the two is normal ranges.

    The thing is this is very vague.

    Take a look at a chart of the average testosterone levels by age:

    As you will see in the link above, testosterone goes down by age. It typically drops 1% every year after the age of 25- it vairss depending on the source.

    A man in his early 20's ( I'm 24 btw) should have testosterone levels in the region of 700 ng/dl with free testosterone in the region of 12 ng/dl.

    Both of these values drop with age.

    The interesting thing however, is that this only applies in urban areas. Out in the country and in tribes etc.. older men don't suffer a drop in testosterone level to the same degree.

    This suggests that the changes are actually to do with environment and lifestyle.

    A young healthy man will have a lot of resistance against low testosterone but this will change as he ages.

    Urban areas cause low T through; chronic stress/fast paced lifestyle, poor sleep, poor diet ( vitamin and mineral deficiencies, low fat trends, junk food etc..), over masturbation, addictions, lack of exercise, lack of sunlight, xenoestrogens ( quite a big one) and other chemicals and pollutants, alcohol etc..

    Whereas in rural areas and tribes untouched by modern lifestyles they have; slower paced less stressful lifestyles, good sleep undisrupted by (light, work patterns, nights out etc..), healthy natural diets, a lack of xenoestrogens, plenty of exercise and sunlight etc..

    It's also interesting that testosterone levels have steadily dropped. A man of our age - a 22-24 year old, 50 -100 years ago would have had testosterone levels that were 30-50% higher.

    That means that if the average level for a guy in his early twenties is 700 ng/dl it would have been more like an average of 900 - 1000 ng dl back then. AND the thing is, a lot of guys our age have the testosterone levels of old men and are at more like 400 ng/dl.

    That's not even half the testosterone levels men had back then.

    The reason for these changes is mostly; xenoestrogens, poor sleep patterns and greater work stress, as well as internet porn and other things like that which encourage men to live sedentary lives void of exercise, sunlight and more natural things.

    Sex for example boosts testosterone levels by 70% as found in one study where men visited a sex club and had sex, whereas the men who watched them had sex had only an 11% boost - that says something about porn.

    It would be my guess that PMO would boost testosterone momentarily but seeing as a lot of guys are addicts and over masturbate, it probably over all lowers testosterone.

    If I ask you a few questions and based on your answers I'll give you an estimate of where it is. It's best if you get it checked by a doctor though.

    Q1: How many times a week do you wake up with a full hard erection?

    Q2: When having sex or masturbating, do you ever lose your erection or is it fully hard as long as you need it to be?

    Q3: How would you describe the anxiety you are feeling?

    Q4: How often do you feel stressed and to what degree?

    Q5: What is your refractory period like? After orgasm, how long does it take for your libido to return to 100%? How long after orgasm does it take for you to get a full erection?

    Q7: How strong are you? Are you able to lift: A) only someone that weighs less than you B) Someone of the same weight at most or C) someone who weighs considerably more than you?

    Q8: How often do you weight lift? How fast do you gain muscle (not fat or water retention)?

    Q9: Are you passive or do you tend to stand up for yourself in any situation?

    Q10: How much guilt do you feel on a day to day basis?

    Q11: How much do you trust random people that you ecounter?

    Q12: How fast does your facial hair grow?

    Q13: What is your facial composition like: Chiselled, inbetween or puffy/chubby

    Q14: What is your height and how much do you weigh?

    Q15: How deep is your voice?

    Q16: How confident do you feel in general?

    Q17: When challenged by another man ( someone your size or bigger) do you tend to backdown and apologise or do you challenge them back?

    That should be enough information to go on.

    I disagree, there are many, many things I could suggest for you to boost your testosterone levels without having to spend any money.

    Also, definitely don't go for T therapy. Often men have low testosterone due to lifestyle and they go on T therapy, their testicles shrink, they can become infertile, develop worsening health problems and if they ever come of the T injections, they often find that their natural testosterone levels are completely shut down - so they have to stay on them for life or go through a long and annoying treatment protocol to get their balls to produce T again.

    I would suggest that you get your testosterone levels checked and let me know the results.

    I wouldn't settle for anything below about 500 ng/dl - there can be fluctuations though.

    I'm planning to make a testosterone boosting E book soon and give away the first few copies for free.

    Get your total testosterone, free testosterone, estrogen ( full profile), SHBG, DHT, DHEA and cortisol levels checked.

    If your testosterone is low, I will give you a step by step guide on how to boost it naturally without any herbal supplements ( they are an option but a last resort) and without having to get testosterone replacement therapy.

    In return all I ask is that you get your testosterone levels retested and let me know the improvements.

    For all we know, you might have sky high testosterone levels but this is very rare in people who have anxiety and some of the other symptoms you do.

    If you are looking at a dopamine supplement, I would suggest L tyrosine or Mucuna and fish oil and CDP-Citicoline or uridine.

    You receptors should have had some improvement from the choline supplements.

    These things are very complicated though and I admittedly don't have as good an understanding about dopamine as I do about testosterone.

    They are related though, an increase in one tends to increase the other.

    Good luck bro.
  10. Complex

    Complex Member

    I can tell you are one of those people who have the right mindframe here and will beat this.
    You probably know everything about beating this. I dont know what type of person you are(outgoing,shy,anxious) and dont know your sexual history. If your similar to me i could prob help you out. The urges are hard now but after a few months they vanish.

    Ive been taking subliminal b12 as i heard the same.

    Vinpoctine and Huperzine A are nootropic. They're like smart drugs without side effects. If you check iherb's reviews and other forums theres people who think it works for memory etc.

    Dude if you had lots of energy at one stage you can deffo get it back. Why are you lacking energy atm?. The thing that scares me i haven't had energy in years. I suppose i had lots of energy before and early stages of starting PMO (10-13).

    Cool i hope to be full of energy one day. Porn gave me anxiety and the anxiety kept me bed bound and not caring about myself or future. Being alone with my self destructive thoughts made me blame the world. By being lonely i was trying to make it out that it was ok to be and not care about real world relationships. While i do enjoy my company (maybe too much :D) i see now that a relationship would be so beneficial. (being able to talk to someone, love etc)

    Only now do i see that i was afraid and thought i could leave out important human needs (socialisation, relationships).

    It was that bad anxiety destroys everything.

    Ding ding!! you are correct. always listen to your body, most people dont because their subconscious won't let them because it will make them change.

    You seem to know a lot about testostorone. Would being below average make a huge difference?. How did you feel when you got your levels up?.

    Q1: How many times a week do you wake up with a full hard erection?

    Maybe 3.. more sometimes ?. The thing is i barely touched myself in the year. I really couldn't afford to and just couldn't get it up most of the time. So I've gone used to not masturbating and i dont get urges. Before i started this reboot i woke up with a morning erection like every morning. I just need to reawaken my libido, only through sex this time. Fuck masturbating lol. Physically I'm fine its the fucked up brain thats the problem.

    Q2: When having sex or masturbating, do you ever lose your erection or is it fully hard as long as you need it to be?

    These days i can mostly keep it hard and erect with only a small amount of stimulation and thats without fantasy. If i drink or do drugs is very hard to get up.

    Q3: How would you describe the anxiety you are feeling?

    The anxiety right now has come along tonnes. Still I'm not letting the loud, funny , annoying person at times show lol. At times I'm nervous around talking to new people and people I'm not that close too. It depends on the situation whether I'm in a room full of people or just talking to few people. I stop myself cus i mumble and stutter which was brought on because i porn. Im just afraid of making a show of myself. People i talk to often i dont have any of these things.

    Q4: How often do you feel stressed and to what degree?

    Not really a stressed person. I wind myself up a lot though. I think of situations that never happen that would piss me off haha. Im doing my best not to now.

    Q5: What is your refractory period like? After orgasm, how long does it take for your libido to return to 100%? How long after orgasm does it take for you to get a full erection?

    Its been so long so i can only guess. I prob could do it within half in hour when i fapped a lot. Depends on the urges could be 45 minutes - 60 minutes but i was sexual exhausted at the time.

    Q7: How strong are you? Are you able to lift: A) only someone that weighs less than you B) Someone of the same weight at most or C) someone who weighs considerably more than you?

    B... and C if i really really tried

    Q8: How often do you weight lift? How fast do you gain muscle (not fat or water retention)?

    Small frame and fast metabolism. so slow!!

    Q9: Are you passive or do you tend to stand up for yourself in any situation?

    i dont stand up for myself as much as i should. People would tease me, most times i just took it and it did affect me. I would go home and hate myself at times. This made me more venerable as time went on and people took advantage of that.

    Q10: How much guilt do you feel on a day to day basis?

    Not much i try keep myself away from negative thoughts nowadays. I used to be like "why me" and "if only" i do get it from time to time. I couldn't give a fuck anymore.

    Q11: How much do you trust random people that you ecounter?

    I can tell when people are trustable and who aren't. Sometimes my judgement is wrong but usually right. It really depends on the person.. if they're are generally nice and i get on with them straight away i feel comfortable. This is rare enough though.

    Q12: How fast does your facial hair grow?

    Slow. Its peach fuzz type of stuff. 3 days to start sprouting again and a week to get longish hairs. Im not sure though get back to you on that.

    Q13: What is your facial composition like: Chiselled, inbetween or puffy/chubby


    Q14: What is your height and how much do you weigh?

    5'10 and 63kg

    Q15: How deep is your voice?

    Deep. People have commented on it.

    Q16: How confident do you feel in general?

    I am confident at heart. My thoughts and mind frame are of someone who's confident its my emotions that are the problem. I can think I'm confident all i want but my emotions are damaged. PMO, bullying and years of low self esteem caused this. Its the waiting came now for my brain fix.

    Q17: When challenged by another man ( someone your size or bigger) do you tend to backdown and apologise or do you challenge them back?

    Again depends on situation. Drink related i won't back down lol. I backdown a lot. ahh fucking hard even to admit it on this.

    This brings me back to dopamine. Look up the symptoms of low dopamine and i have a bit of everything. I deffo have mild dyslexia and maybe some ADD. They're both a like. I was very very distracted growing up. trying to concentrate was hard so i didn't. Would day dream A LOT.

    I wonder if i just need to supplement. Dunno if it will work cus i always had these problems my whole life. HOPEFULLY getting levels up will make a difference. Hopefully their is room for more fuel lol.

    I just want to enough energy to do a productive days work and concentrate. Just to be able to get on with things like most people. Most people would say I'm lazy but i generally feel its not like that. If i was lazy i wouldn't care about changing, the fact is i do wanna change but i barely have energy to get out of bed yeno.? If i try to listen etc its draining and its like a challenge. Even when its not school related.

    Your lucky cus you had energy and prob good concentration at a time. So you know you can get it back. The only thing i can do is wait, keep a good mind frame and stay as happy as possible.

    You'll be the first person I tell about my testosterone levels . Thank u
  11. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    I will beat this or I will die trying. A bit dramatic but I'm serious.

    My main problem has been sleep, PMO and adrenal fatigue are secondary to that but everything is connected.

    I've quit PMO to lower adrenaline, help normalise cortisol, heal dopamine receptors, elevate serotonin, GABA and acetylcholine and help them deactivate the sympathetic nervous system at night.

    Also no PMO means I can stick to a regular sleep pattern more easily - easier to wake up and easier to fall and stay asleep.

    The issue has been that when you have adrenal fatigue and sleep problems, you can't afford to PMO at all really.

    A heathy person could PMO often and it would take years for them to develop sexual exhaustion and at least a while for them to get dopamine related brain changes indicative of addiction.

    But when you are unhealthy - especially in the case of poor sleep and adrenal problems etc.. you can get sexually exhausted far quicker and your neurochemistry is incredibly fragile and burnt out.

    This means that; caffeine, alcohol, PMO, smoking etc.. any thing that involves addiction and an increase in neurotransmitters will exhaust you far too quickly.

    This is why I have quit PMO. I'm not sure what level of dopamine D2 receptor delta fos B build up I have but I'm pretty sure my dopamine supplies have been burnt out - especially by caffeine and sex with my ex gf ( all the time - addiction) and PMO.

    My default personality - when I was 17-20 ( the last time I was fully healthy) was: High sex drive, high energy, low anxiety, high testosterone, friendly and relaxed and I cared a lot about people.

    Like you I had an ectomorph frame - also 5 ft 10 and naturally was about 140 lbs. I weight lifted and bulked myself up to about 170lbs.

    I lost a lot of this mass and am in the process of regaining it.

    I'll have to have a look at Vinpoctine and Huperzine. I used iherb to get melatonin to the UK.

    Have high energy levels should be default for a man in their early twenties, anyone who doesn't have this has some sort of health problem, I guarantee it.

    My recovery is not linear, some things are beyond our own control but my energy levels correlate to my sleep timing, quantity and quality.

    There is a threshold I need to cross at which point my symptoms literally disappear and everything changes but getting to that point requires consistent good quality sleep and that is very difficult to achieve.

    If you are able to fall asleep early ( 9-10pm) I would highly recommend you try it for a week.

    I have a circadian rhythm disorder that I am trying to correct.

    This is because I was chronically depressed for a while before I had adrenal fatigue and I would be going to be at 4am and getting only a few hours sleep every night.

    This is what lead to my adrenal fatigue, combined with poor diet, over exercise and starting a new job that required normal sleep hours. This then lead to me to get addicted to PMO and sex as it was one of the only things that made me feel any happiness.

    Anxiety is a bitch. I've had times of horrible anxiety. You can bet that when you feel this that your testosterone is in the toilet, and your neurotransmitters are messed up.

    It can be the case that a neurochemical and hormonal imbalance (caused by PMO for example) can cause this anxiety or it can be the case that a psychological issue leads to these imbalances.

    I've been down the whole self destructive path, hating everyone else, even people I've never met. I never told my friends about my problems, as far as they know I am happy and have been doing well.

    That's the way it needs to be, if you tell them this sort of stuff they will lose respect and it will mess up your friendship. It's best to keep the dynamics the same so that you have some sense of your old life intact.

    I occasionally try NLP and things like that to help reprogram the subconscious mind.

    It depends, for each man there is a certain level of testosterone at which they will feel the best.

    Some men can have testosterone levels of 400 ng/dl and feel good but some will have testosterone levels of 600 ng/dl and feel like shit because that is low for them.

    Free testosterone levels are the most important.

    Having lowered testosterone can make you feel like an old man or womanly.

    If you think that a large part of the differences between a man and a woman are to do with men having 20 x or higher testosterone levels - even the societal differences are shaped by the innate psychological differences.

    If you want to imagine high testosterone levels think back to the way men were 50 years ago, or think of the alpha male figures in society. Alpha males and men with higher social status have higher testosterone and dopamine levels.

    I can tell where my testosterone levels are at , they are far from linear and only when I have fixed my sleep problems will they be consistently high.

    In general with higher testosterone, it's like this;

    You have more energy, you feel mentally indestructible, you are less sensitive to pain, you take your self much more seriously in the sense that you have a lot more pride and self esteem and you will stand up for yourself a lot more and feel a lot less guilt over trivial things.

    You are not afraid of women, you feel like a man and feel protective of them and you will look them right in the eyes and smile at them to make them feel secure.

    You tend to have a strong identity and sense of who you are and follow your own moral code ruthlessly.

    When you workout, you give 110% and push yourself to your limits and you gain muscle and lose muscle more easily.

    You tend to have a more chiselled face; higher facial muscle and lower subcutaneous fat in all the right places.

    There are other subtle facial changes to fat deposits and around the eye and brow area and to skin thickness etc..

    This makes sense because a man with higher testosterone levels is more likely to fight for what he believes and so increased muscle mass and more "padding" to his face will help him take punches and deal them out.

    Your voice depth changes and becomes deeper.

    You have a high sex drive, you could have sex multiple times in one session and recover quickly. You get much more aroused by women and find them much more attractive even the ones that aren't hot.

    You feel confident around women and you feel like you are in control, like you are leading the conversation and you don't feel anxious around them.

    Women respond more positively to you, this could be pheromones or it could be something to do with body language, facial expressions, voice pitch etc..

    Studies have been done which show that women are more attracted and feel more of a connection to men with higher testosterone.

    You tend to be a lot less afraid and are more willing to take risks.

    Men with high Testosterone aren't aggressive necessarily, they tend to have calm and relaxed demeanours and often don't get angry over trivial things because they don't take them seriously and don't feel threatened.

    But if someone crosses the line, they will get very angry and will become aggressive and will fight.

    High testosterone actually increases cognitive function and helps protect against cardiovascular disease and diabetes amongst others.

    Judging by your answers I would guess your testosterone level is around : 400 - 500 ng/dl

    So not very low but not where it should be. Of course that is just a guess and might be far from the truth.

    If I were you, I would go to the doctors and get tested for: Total and free testosterone, estrogen, SHBG, LH, Cortisol, DHEA.

    This would tell you where your testoserone levels are and what the root cause is if there is a problem.

    Well low dopamine could be caused by low testosterone as testosterone stimulates dopamine release- you may have the dopamine stores but it isn't getting released or you may have a dopamine deficiency.

    Low dopamine levels can also lower testosterone levels.

    That would be my advise.
  12. Striveforpurity

    Striveforpurity All praise and glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Are you a vegetarian?
  13. Complex

    Complex Member

    Dude you'll be fine you know what to do.

    Didn't think testosterone played such a huge part in how we are.

    Ive been going to bed very early the last like 3 days. Getting down 8-13 hours lol. Im not tired atm. but I'm not refreshed and dont feel like doing anything. Plus if i was to do something i get tired very easily.

    Im having shitty thoughts like I'm thinking "whats the point in anything" and its fucking annoying me cus I'm trying not to think about it and it slips back in. I blame this due to de-personilation and just bad well being. I think i just need to keep working on my mind frame, abstain, stay healthy and exercise.

    i think i dwell on these things because I've no energy and no motivation. So my sub conscious is tryna make me feel better or something by thinking things but that aren't helping!!!. I need to stay active , socialise and try form relationships... i have too much time by myself...
  14. Complex

    Complex Member

    No I'm not.
  15. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    I went 3-4 months without ejaculation recently, and was doing pretty good. Had sex once and EVERYTHING came back. EVERYTHING. WORSENED dark circles, heavy depression, etc like I felt a month ago.

    I literally have to accept not being able to have sex for as long as it takes for my body to fully recover. My head was WRECKED the week following (this week) it's getting better again but I seemed to have done more damage to myself. I also get good sleep. That plan is good but what works the fastest is no orgasms. I didn't even have a wetdream in the 4 months. I don't understand how this is even possible. I think my body is just so sexually exhausted that one orgasm triggers the entire withdrawal cycle all over again, which i'm experiencing AGAIN after getting out of it. It's literally driving me insane. I'm not sure what's crazier. Going for long unrealistic periods without sex or having sex once and recycling all the withdrawal symptoms. Fuck. What's worse is I wasn't prepared for any of this when I stopped watching porn. Relapsed a lot.
  16. Complex

    Complex Member

    Interesting borges. Im sure you had wet dreams throughout ?. but not in a while.

    This brings me back to my theory where maybe having 30-40 wet dreams in my reboot actually helped me in the long run. It prepared me by it not being as extreme as an orgasm. but still fucking extreme. Wet dreams barely affect me now so that a good sign ill be moving forward rather than 12 steps back every time i have one.

    i had 6+ wet dreams in the last month and a half lol.

    your starting to realise its abstaining that you need, and well done on having sex :D. Thats gonna help in the long run. but i dont agree when people say that you should rewire throughout reboot cus people like us can't afford to. Side affects are too much.

    It doesn't say nowhere how long its gonna take. People freak out when they're not cured in the "acceptable" time frame 3-9 months. cus most people are cured in that amount of time. Anything over that people think they're in the territory where they are un healable.

    Borges you gotta listen to yourself. You know that your still fucked up so why do thing you know will set you back. The fact you were set back tells me you make some progress, so you are moving forward somewhat. Always remember it gets better before it gets worse.

    are you prepare to go another year maybe more, without PMO?. I sure am. Theres no rush ;p
  17. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    It could be something unrelated to sleep or PMO such as a hormonal imbalance.

    If I were you I would get some testing done at the doctors because you don't want to put in all the hard work of abstaining just to find out months from now that the root cause was something else.

    Just my thoughts anyway.
  18. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    Yeah I used to have a lot of wetdreams at first, like 1-2 every 2 weeks and they would send me back a lot. I basically felt like a train wreck this entire time. What's strange is I didn't have a wetdream or any urges for these recent 3-4 months, and when I had sex just once, I had a wetdream that following night and I barely felt it, but it acted like 2 orgasms on my brain and sent me back a lot.

    I could drink fine, I could smoke weed fine (although I don't now because it makes me super anxious) with no ill effects, but one orgasm and boom, derailed and back in withdrawal. So I know for a fact that my nervous/sexual system was in the process of healing and I basically just hit it hard which threw me back. I had sex with a prostitute also, so there was no foreplay etc. We did talk before hand for a bit and I was getting hard talking to her and my erection was monstrous, so I didn't have ED because I had sex for a solid 5 -7 minutes and was in control of my ejaculation, but after that I went back into flatline HARD. Just have to abstain again.
  19. Borges08

    Borges08 Member

    Had a full blood panel and my doctor went through everything and said everything was perfect. T levels, perfect, adrenals and thyroid perfect, everything was perfect. He also knows about my porn/MO addiction so there's no doubt in my mind that it's most likely sexual exhaustion since only orgasm destroys my system. He said adrenals were fine but I have just about every symptom you listed.

    My addiction was pretty severe too and lasted for about a decade. Never saw it coming but it peaked through 2011-2013 it was multiple times a week and I'd take it to the extreme every time. I never deathgripped but watched really hardcore stuff. The withdrawal at the beginning was pure hell after quitting I changed as a person overnight.
  20. Invictus23

    Invictus23 Member

    Did you get free testosterone levels checked?

    Would you be able to post a scan of all your results so I can have a look?

    There could be a problem with hormone receptors or a neurochemical deficiency or receptor issue.

    Perhaps your body is still healing from PMO and still removing delta fos b?

    It sounds to me like your problem may well be to do with High prolactin/ low dopamine which plays a role in the refractory period.

    If you haven't already,I suggest you look at this site as it has a load of useful information:

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