How do you stop objectifying women?

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by BruceWayne, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. BruceWayne

    BruceWayne Building the life I want, day by day...

    I’ve been doing this for years sometimes without even realizing it. I find it very difficult to not focus on a woman’s attractiveness and have to pull my eyes away so I don’t ogle.

    For other men they can seem to walk by an attractive woman without having to do a double take or turn their head around and do it quite easily.

    What mindset should I be striving for in order to do this?
     
  2. themammothrept

    themammothrept Administrator Staff Member

    Rebooting will help you develop this mindset, as you become more interested in personality as well as just attractiveness. Additionally, it is important to make a conscious decision not to ogle. Don't look below the neckline, that's one of my rules. As your reboot continues and as you make a conscious decision not to ogle, your sexual tastes will gradually shift and become more romantic, so that you won't be interested in every woman you see on the street.
     
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  3. Caesura

    Caesura Member

    I've been rebooting for five years. For three of those years, I was 100% porn free, and at one point I was also 9 months MO-free. My tendency to objectify women has NOT improved much at any point.

    I have brief periods of time where I stop objectifying, and I really enjoy that. It's beautiful. But it never lasts.

    However, I'm just getting started on learning to cope with stress. So maybe my failure to do that before made me still see women as objects. I don't know.
     
  4. doneatlast

    doneatlast Active Member

    Learn more and more. Listen to stories. Make friends. If we're talking porn, learn some of the stories of ex-porn stars and what their lives were like. I've gained a lot by befriending women. My best friends are women, in fact. It means that I've heard more than a few stories of being looked up and down, harassed or worse. Replacing the porn image of women with a healthier, more realistic one can be important. We're interested in people and women in particular, so suppressing one without replacing it can be difficult. If you're around some guys who are ogling, you can call them out, at least quietly to yourself as an exercise. Just because a woman is wearing a certain garment doesn't mean she's "expecting" to be stared at (or worse).

    Maybe a bit of a tangent, but I stumbled on this video this morning that seems relevant:
     
  5. BruceWayne

    BruceWayne Building the life I want, day by day...

    I’ve been doing some thinking about this topic and I really think for me personally porn has played a major role in objectifying women however I need to do more than just quit porn but rather I need to consciously tell myself to see women as more than just their attractiveness.

    One thing I did was compare how I see my male friends to how I see my female friends and acquaintences. I notice with my male friends I don’t care how they look. I care a lot more about who they are as a person, how they treat people, their actions and their character. With females I really only care about their actractiveness. Who they are doesn’t really matter.

    I think that it’s obviously okay to see women as physically attractive but when it’s the only thing you see and the only thing you care about, it’s a problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    doneatlast and themammothrept like this.
  6. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    Hi Bruce,

    Thank you for opening this thread. This is definitely something I struggle with. Like Cesura I have periods of relief, those are good times. Other times I am weighed down by the burden to look.
    For me I believe that these times correlate to my state of mind. If I think I deserve to be treated better, (by wife, children, boss or God), then I am only too able to imagine how much pleasure I could bring to the subject of my objectification. The physical response is similar to that from seeing a car that I would like but cannot afford. In other words for me objectifying women is a materialistic desire to break free from my current difficulty and attain the status I am rightly entitled to.

    In the heat of battle I will try not to acknowledge the women. If I have to acknowledge her then I will myself to talk to her face and deal with any hangover quickly afterwards.
    If there is the luxury of doing so I try to get in touch with gratitude for what I do have, be that work, a wife, children, life or my bicycle.

    Soar Well
     
  7. ImageReflected

    ImageReflected New Member

    I'm just going to be honest here. I personally believe that you don't and won't ever stop objectifying someone, especially if you find that person attractive. men do it. women do it. I've heard so many women talk about men as if they are just playtoys or something like that and I've off course heard men do it too. attraction is built into us from when we are born and its not something that you can just turn off. If I see a girl walking down the street with a nice body/pretty face I'm probably going to glance over and understand that she is attractive. I've done it, women have done it too me, and people have done it too each other. it's natural and as long as you understand boundaries there isn't anything wrong. the problem becomes when you don't understand said boundaries and instead choose to stare at her for way too long to make her creep out or following her or instead of actually being nice and asking for her number or something you begin making advances towards her like smacking her ass when she walks past.
     
  8. Caesura

    Caesura Member

    But is physical attraction really the same thing as objectification? I think I've felt sexual desire for a woman's body before without seeing her as an object--it was just a long time ago. Before I ever saw porn.
     
  9. ImageReflected

    ImageReflected New Member

    Yes and No. like I said previously understanding boundaries is the key point here and if you look at all women as nothing but tools for you too stick your dick into like some kind of sentient sex doll then you've overstepped the boundary obviously. however if, for example, I'm looking at a girl on the street or even just me looking at my girlfriends ass and in that moment I feel sexual desire or attraction there is still an underlying implication of objectification there, The difference is that type is something that is hard wired into us, we can't fight that one because we can't fight attraction and there's nothing wrong with that. that's how relationships are formed a lot of the time. it happens to men and women.

    Last thing I want to mention is that this topic is hard, the only reason why is because the difference could be so subtle at first but then make sense after
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  10. Caesura

    Caesura Member

    I'm not convinced by your argument, but I don't have evidence or reasoning to back up my own position, either. I HOPE that it's possible to desire someone's body without seeing them as an object... but hope is not much to go on.
     
  11. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    There is a gratitude response to the beauty of one's own spouse, which is a gift to enhance an already rich life. Whilst this is a form of arousal this cannot be compared to objectification. With objectification there is a greed or gluttony which is motivated by a poor life that causes us to grab what we can in the hope that arousal will help us forget how empty we feel. For me this can be out and out nuisance towards my wife as well as desiring a woman who has just past me in the street or even a pleasant warmth derived from seeing a neat ankle. All these things have AROUSED me because I was feeling that life was dealing me a bad hand.
     
  12. ImageReflected

    ImageReflected New Member

    I seriously disagree with this statement based on the sheer amount of implications that you make. The implication of you having arousal to other women because your mood was depressed instead of elevated is ridiculous. Just because you have a wife or a gf doesn’t mean you suddenly won’t find other women attractive or even desirable, never has this happened in nature between animals including humans. Evoloutionary speaking humans ultimate goal is literally just to make sure we are reproducing and having the offspring with the most chance of survival so of course that will translate into finding people attractive.

    Societies even today have cultures within them where instead of monogamy being the norm, polymary or polygamy( one man, multiple wives) are the norm, going by your logic would you concede that an entire culture is in your words feeling like life dealt them a “bad hand”?

    Lastly please explain to me how arousal to your wife is a “gift” however arousal to others is suddenly objectification and fueled by greed? Don’t get me wrong, I by no means condone cheating or wrong doing by your spouse but if we are just talking biology here, they are both women that you find sexually attractive and have viewed in a sexual way/possibly had sexual thoughts about. You can’t have it both ways, it’s either objectification or it’s a gift. I personally feel that my being able to experience my raw sexuality is nothing more then a gift.
     
  13. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    Image, welcome to YBR.

    To answer your direct question
    Please, understand that if I did not make it clear I do frequently objectify my wife, most often at times when I find other women arousing too. This is fuelled by a similar state of mind to the need to act out with PMO. When I am in my best state of mind I can see a woman and think she is attractive but I would not objectify her, this usually happens at times when I am comfortable with my place in the world. It is times like these when I can experience arousal for my wife without objectifying her.
    As an aside I have spent time this weekend with women who I would not objectify, but I felt a sexual connection because of something deeper and more innocent. This was more of a motherly connection which felt sexual.

    I shall come beck to this later
     
  14. Freedom from Servitude

    Freedom from Servitude Active Member

    Good thread. For me attraction and objectification of women is a bit of a grey area that I am trying to figure out. I don't think it is as straight forward as looking away from women over time and finding that you stop objectifying women. I am two years two months hard mode sober, I do my best to look away from women in the streets with mixed success. But I never allow my gaze to linger, where the struggle lies is the tug of war with my eyes and stopping myself from glimpsing again. This urge is just automatically there, and I can't say that it has changed that much over the time I have been in recovery. Like GreyHeron, I experience times when it is easier and others when it gets difficult.

    I get what is being said about the difference between objectification and attraction. For me, I experience attraction when i feel that there is a connection with someone's personality, and with this comes an admiration for their general being. I can also appreciate the less sexualised parts of a woman from the colour of her eyes to the texture of her hair. The implication is made that objectification is somewhat unnatural and I am not sure that it is. I think it maybe part of the organic desire to reproduce. That's not to give a license to indulge in it, because I think that behaviour can be a barrier to genuinely connecting with a woman, plus it always leads us on a path to using porn.
     
  15. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    I wish to retract the comment about the 'pleasant warmth of an ankle' objectification can never be described as a pleasant warmth. Implicit in the term Objectification is that these woman are disposable. I accept that other cultures have different views on normal, looking at them from my understanding of the world I see benefits and difficulties such that even in these cultures objectification can be an issue.
    No matter what your norm if you are using arousal to medicate something then you are using arousal for something that it is not suitable. Would you eat soup with a fork? What other reasons might bring men to this forum?

    Please explain how this is not a justification for bad behaviour. Usually people who quote this are either saying we have to overcome this fact of nature because our will is out of control or they are trying to justify a loose lifestyle where it is acceptable to sow your wild oats, which is being said here? Is there a third way to examine this?
     
  16. ImageReflected

    ImageReflected New Member

    Well of course if you are using arousal as a form of self medication then you need to look at what you are really trying to medicate, the same goes with drugs or any other kind of addiction, my point never stemmed from there, in fact I did say earlier that if you are crossing a line then obviously there's a problem. My point is that sexual attraction is a mixed up cocktail with at least one part objectification and I could give you a thousand and one real world examples of that. I'm saying that there's a line and where that line is drawn is dependent on cultural, time and a plethora of other factors.

    Secondly to answer you're question I said that because if you read it from the full paragraph you can see the full context in which it is meant. I was not talking about living a loose lifestyle or anything of the sort, I was saying that the base attraction to other women/men while in a relationship isn't inherently a form of objectification like you implied in the message before that.

    No one is making an argument for porn not existing, the same way I'm not making an argument to say that objectification does not exist. of course it does, however from my experience, watching my friends (both male and female) talk about people they find attractive and just from seeing it on social media. objectification is apart of sexual attraction to some extent. it shouldn't be the whole thing however it's there in a small form. Again to bring up my last example, if I see a girl walking down the street who is just drop dead gorgeous with an amazing body, my first thought won't be on her personality or her talents. I don't know her. My thoughts will probably be focused on her body and what I can see from a first impression. you've done it, I've done it, everyone has done it and that is objectification.
     
  17. ImageReflected

    ImageReflected New Member

    Btw thank you for the welcome bro, I hope this doesn't come off as aggressive or anything. Just debating with you, no hard feelings.
     
  18. Raskolnikov

    Raskolnikov Active Member

    The best way to stop anything is always to not start. The second is frequently remembering the experiences of not having stopped. When we objectify women, we objectify ourselves, because we are in effect saying 'what matters to me is a womans body parts, not who she is', addicts don't really care about themselves, gorging on a substance is not quite the same as caring. Addicts care about appearances and false pretenses, it's a highly selective memory of using the drug, while forgetting that it uses you.

    In this way, we are really only baiting and fooling ourselves when we objectify.
     
  19. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    Hi Image,

    I am sorry, this discussion has turned into an argument because I have chosen to take off on a tangent. I do that at home thinking that I am being helpful.

    I believe that you and I are closer in thought than the above exchanges imply. Perhaps if someone is brave enough to chance their arm in the future I will get another opportunity to express myself more precisely.

    No hard feelings Image but I am going to step away from contributing to this thread to let someone else move it on in my absence.
     

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