Author Topic: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?  (Read 1077 times)

Reborn2014

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Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« on: March 23, 2013, 11:19:55 AM »
From all my research and experiences in abstaining from PMO in the last 2-3 years, i've noticed something quite interesting. In almost every report of someone who's stopped for >90 days, they've become stronger, more confident, more attractive, etc. But this doesn't happen to someone who only goes half-way and quits Porn only, or Porn and Masturbation only (still have sex). They don't experience the benefits to such an extent. Usually, it's just a lessening of brain fog or social anxiety for those who just stopped Porn and Masturbation.

Which leads me to conclude that there must be something in orgasm that saps the vitality of man. Either it's the nutritional loss of semen, or the dopamine hit of the orgasm itself which causes this loss. (The vast majority of men who abstained for more than 90 days and myself included, never seemed to have wet dreams, so i don't know which is the major cause, but both are a factor).

In other words, rather than just focusing on Porn, PMO as a whole should be viewed as something that should be minimised from our lives as much as possible. (Porn and masturbation preferably removed totally).

Reasons why masturbation and sex after rebooting is best avoided:

1. Masturbation is the cause of a continous loss of essential nutrients within semen, which may take many days or weeks for the body to replenish. However, due to the constant hits of dopamine each time someone masturbates, they are already too desensitized, so their withdrawal period is not too long (usually 1-3 days). It's the nutrient replenishment which is the problem here.

2. Sex involves the loss of sexual fluids also, but the loss is not as serious due to the absorbtion of vaginal secretions into the penis (though this is not in equilibrium. you will lose more than you gain). However, when someone has sex with their partner less than once a week, and do not masturbate (see above), their replenished dopamine receptors will take the full hit of orgasm 'rewards' and the withdrawal period that follows will cause you to have a week of mild headaches and brain fog. (But then you return back to your partner again for a new dopamine hit!).

So obviously we can conclude we have only 3 options here if we want a (relatively at least) virile and healthy lives:

1. Frequent sex with a heavy diet rich in vitamins and minerals (minimises nutrient loss and being 'too sensitive'.)
2. Karezza (Ideal).
3. Celibacy until marriage.

With the frequent sex option, there will still be side effects and a loss of vitality. But it will be minimal (assuming you have left Porn and masturbation behind as you should).

With Karezza, this would be ideal route. As it (or so it appears) is sex with none of these drawbacks but many benefits such as closer, more intimate encounters. But, to be blunt, having sex karezza style with a girl who is not in a long-term relationship with you, will be a bit of an awkward disaster. She won't have a clue what's going on, and think you're a bit of a sexual retard (Lets be honest. What would you think if your girlfriend only wanted to have tantric sex or something else you may be unfamiliar with). Explaining to her why you can't have sex 'the normal way' (and prefer an interesting new technique you found online) is going to be difficult as well, unless you've been with her long enough to be sure she won't take it the wrong way.

So, that leaves Celibacy until marriage (or at least until you're in a committed and happy relationship. But if you wait that long, you may as well save it for marriage and make it that extra special for both of you on that day). Where you can implement Karezza into your married sex life.

That's my thinking anyway. What are everyone's thoughts? Thanks for reading.

N.B. If you haven't heard of Karezza, visit Reuniting.info and do yourself a favour ;)


« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 01:38:16 PM by Yuuichi »

ByeByeBadman

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 11:56:05 AM »
You obviously didnt read Journey to Freedom's journal.

Reborn2014

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 12:46:16 PM »
Don't know who he is. So no.

IcyEyes

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 12:52:21 PM »
No, thanks. I love to fuck.
I fought porn addiction... and I won.
Love will prevail.

wantabetterlife

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 01:05:42 PM »
Well if you get lucky and get a girl to be interested in you then why not have sex with her? And if you are giong to have sex after marriage, then think of what will happen if you suck or if your partner sucks in bed? You will have to remain with that person forever.


wantabetterlife

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 01:10:57 PM »
2. Sex involves the loss of sexual fluids also, but the loss is not as serious due to the absorbtion of vaginal secretions into the penis (though this is not in equilibrium. you will lose more than you gain). However, when someone has sex with their partner less than once a week, and do not masturbate (see above), their replenished dopamine receptors will take the full hit of orgasm 'rewards' and the withdrawal period that follows will cause you to have a week of mild headaches and brain fog.
Yah have unprotected sex and we all put ourselves to risks or getting someone pregnant or get STDs, right?


Reborn2014

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 01:13:21 PM »
Well if you get lucky and get a girl to be interested in you then why not have sex with her? And if you are giong to have sex after marriage, then think of what will happen if you suck or if your partner sucks in bed? You will have to remain with that person forever.

People aren't 'born' bad in bed. They're merely inexperienced. And how do you think experience will be gained? ;)

If you read and understood my post, you would realise i wrote about how sex (the traditional way at least) saps man's vitality. I want to have that same fire in my soul i had on day 50 of no PMO, ad infinitum


« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 01:19:13 PM by Yuuichi »

Reborn2014

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »
2. Sex involves the loss of sexual fluids also, but the loss is not as serious due to the absorbtion of vaginal secretions into the penis (though this is not in equilibrium. you will lose more than you gain). However, when someone has sex with their partner less than once a week, and do not masturbate (see above), their replenished dopamine receptors will take the full hit of orgasm 'rewards' and the withdrawal period that follows will cause you to have a week of mild headaches and brain fog.
Yah have unprotected sex and we all put ourselves to risks or getting someone pregnant or get STDs, right?

Well that goes without saying. And if you do use a condom, then you're just masturbating 'with assistance' when it comes to benefits of sex. You don't receive much or any body fluid from her that would balance the equilibrium

OnceAFapper

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
From all my research and experiences in abstaining from PMO in the last 2-3 years, i've noticed something quite interesting. In almost every report of someone who's stopped for >90 days, they've become stronger, more confident, more attractive, etc. But this doesn't happen to someone who only goes half-way and quits Porn only, or Porn and Masturbation only (still have sex). They don't experience the benefits to such an extent. Usually, it's just a lessening of brain fog or social anxiety for those who just stopped Porn and Masturbation.

I think your premise is faulty. Not everyone will feel more confident after rebooting because some people are confident before rebooting. I think it is more likely that the reason people who continue to have sex don't feel more confident is because they already felt confident to begin with.

Additionally, the number one priority is to stop looking at porn and to say that quitting porn or porn and masturbation only is going "half-way" seems very belittling.

Reborn2014

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 01:46:51 PM »
From all my research and experiences in abstaining from PMO in the last 2-3 years, i've noticed something quite interesting. In almost every report of someone who's stopped for >90 days, they've become stronger, more confident, more attractive, etc. But this doesn't happen to someone who only goes half-way and quits Porn only, or Porn and Masturbation only (still have sex). They don't experience the benefits to such an extent. Usually, it's just a lessening of brain fog or social anxiety for those who just stopped Porn and Masturbation.

I think your premise is faulty. Not everyone will feel more confident after rebooting because some people are confident before rebooting. I think it is more likely that the reason people who continue to have sex don't feel more confident is because they already felt confident to begin with.

Additionally, the number one priority is to stop looking at porn and to say that quitting porn or porn and masturbation only is going "half-way" seems very belittling.

I challenge you to find a success story that didn't involve a person mentioning how their confidence has improved. People aren't born mentally weak, they become that way through their (toxic) lifestyle. As their lifestyle became that little less toxic, their confidence improved.

Additionally, porn and masturbation go hand in hand. Masturbation isn't bad in its nature as long as it's not related to sexual imagery. But we're all here because we have to relate it to sexual imagery. And so masturbation is MUCH easier and more beneficial to give up than learn to do it in a healthy, moderate way.

Don't tell me that i'm belittling you, it's what i've observed. So deal with it. If you don't like it, you'll have a tough fucking time learning the hard way. I used to think like you. That porn is the number one enemy, but it really isn't. It's like focusing on a bad sex life in a poor marriage. It's an important factor, but hardly the most important thing amongst many that will save the marriage. You must look at PMO with no priority or preference, as they're all merely a different flavour of a piss-poor lifestyle


« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 01:50:44 PM by Yuuichi »

wantabetterlife

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2013, 05:01:00 PM »
Well if you get lucky and get a girl to be interested in you then why not have sex with her? And if you are giong to have sex after marriage, then think of what will happen if you suck or if your partner sucks in bed? You will have to remain with that person forever.

People aren't 'born' bad in bed. They're merely inexperienced. And how do you think experience will be gained? ;)

If you read and understood my post, you would realise i wrote about how sex (the traditional way at least) saps man's vitality. I want to have that same fire in my soul i had on day 50 of no PMO, ad infinitum

I dont understand. I had been having sex almost every day with condoms with random hookers, and I didnt get any sort of exhaustion. I just woke up the next day and started having sex again. In fact, I got random erections.


Reborn2014

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2013, 05:19:48 PM »
Well if you get lucky and get a girl to be interested in you then why not have sex with her? And if you are giong to have sex after marriage, then think of what will happen if you suck or if your partner sucks in bed? You will have to remain with that person forever.

People aren't 'born' bad in bed. They're merely inexperienced. And how do you think experience will be gained? ;)

If you read and understood my post, you would realise i wrote about how sex (the traditional way at least) saps man's vitality. I want to have that same fire in my soul i had on day 50 of no PMO, ad infinitum

I dont understand. I had been having sex almost every day with condoms with random hookers, and I didnt get any sort of exhaustion. I just woke up the next day and started having sex again. In fact, I got random erections.

Then you're a lucky bastard :-\

Selzis

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2013, 05:27:39 PM »
I think it depends on the view. Do you think it's "worth" it and would like to go clean into a marriage?
Don't let fear control you, take advantage of it.

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Boerr

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2013, 05:50:34 PM »
Perfect. That's what i have been saying for some time. Masturbation is the enemy number one, masturbation is what really drains you from your sexual/vital energy. That's the cause of depression, social anxiety, lack of energy, lack of virility, etc. But of course you have to stop watching porn, because porn will lead you to masturbation anyway.

I'm lucky that i've found many books about the harms of masturbation before finding YBOP. If i had found YBOP before, i would put too much focus on stopping Porn and i will forget about masturbation as many guys do. They think porn is the first reason for their problems.

Let's consider two situations:

- A guy who watches porn for one hour everyday, but doesn't masturbate.

- A guy who masturbates one hour everyday without porn.

Who do you think will be the most affected? I'm sure the second one will have all the symptoms that we use to experience: Depression, lack of energy, anxiety, low libido etc. I think that for the first guy porn would just get boring after sometime but he will not experience any major symptom.

Of course that when you watch porn and masturbate your situation gets worse, because it's totally addictive and porn makes you masturbate much more. And the desensitization really occurs in this situation.






The Painkiller

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2013, 07:31:19 PM »
PMO is worse because porn makes you Mo and vice-versa. With porn you don't want to have real sex.

While only Mo'ing, I still have some fire left. Although, MO leads to P so avoid all.

lte

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2013, 09:12:15 PM »
From all my research and experiences in abstaining from PMO in the last 2-3 years, i've noticed something quite interesting. In almost every report of someone who's stopped for >90 days, they've become stronger, more confident, more attractive, etc. But this doesn't happen to someone who only goes half-way and quits Porn only, or Porn and Masturbation only (still have sex). They don't experience the benefits to such an extent. Usually, it's just a lessening of brain fog or social anxiety for those who just stopped Porn and Masturbation.

Which leads me to conclude that there must be something in orgasm that saps the vitality of man. Either it's the nutritional loss of semen, or the dopamine hit of the orgasm itself which causes this loss. (The vast majority of men who abstained for more than 90 days and myself included, never seemed to have wet dreams, so i don't know which is the major cause, but both are a factor).

In other words, rather than just focusing on Porn, PMO as a whole should be viewed as something that should be minimised from our lives as much as possible. (Porn and masturbation preferably removed totally).

Reasons why masturbation and sex after rebooting is best avoided:

1. Masturbation is the cause of a continous loss of essential nutrients within semen, which may take many days or weeks for the body to replenish. However, due to the constant hits of dopamine each time someone masturbates, they are already too desensitized, so their withdrawal period is not too long (usually 1-3 days). It's the nutrient replenishment which is the problem here.

2. Sex involves the loss of sexual fluids also, but the loss is not as serious due to the absorbtion of vaginal secretions into the penis (though this is not in equilibrium. you will lose more than you gain). However, when someone has sex with their partner less than once a week, and do not masturbate (see above), their replenished dopamine receptors will take the full hit of orgasm 'rewards' and the withdrawal period that follows will cause you to have a week of mild headaches and brain fog. (But then you return back to your partner again for a new dopamine hit!).

So obviously we can conclude we have only 3 options here if we want a (relatively at least) virile and healthy lives:

1. Frequent sex with a heavy diet rich in vitamins and minerals (minimises nutrient loss and being 'too sensitive'.)
2. Karezza (Ideal).
3. Celibacy until marriage.

With the frequent sex option, there will still be side effects and a loss of vitality. But it will be minimal (assuming you have left Porn and masturbation behind as you should).

With Karezza, this would be ideal route. As it (or so it appears) is sex with none of these drawbacks but many benefits such as closer, more intimate encounters. But, to be blunt, having sex karezza style with a girl who is not in a long-term relationship with you, will be a bit of an awkward disaster. She won't have a clue what's going on, and think you're a bit of a sexual retard (Lets be honest. What would you think if your girlfriend only wanted to have tantric sex or something else you may be unfamiliar with). Explaining to her why you can't have sex 'the normal way' (and prefer an interesting new technique you found online) is going to be difficult as well, unless you've been with her long enough to be sure she won't take it the wrong way.

So, that leaves Celibacy until marriage (or at least until you're in a committed and happy relationship. But if you wait that long, you may as well save it for marriage and make it that extra special for both of you on that day). Where you can implement Karezza into your married sex life.

That's my thinking anyway. What are everyone's thoughts? Thanks for reading.

N.B. If you haven't heard of Karezza, visit Reuniting.info and do yourself a favour ;)
There are some real advantages in waiting until you have a permanent life partner. Every person that you have sex with brings risk of disease, every volition brings risk of pregnancy. There are emotional costs too. I'm not trying to come up with a bunch of shame and guilt, just the fact that a person has sex always carries some cost.

Perfect. That's what i have been saying for some time. Masturbation is the enemy number one, masturbation is what really drains you from your sexual/vital energy. That's the cause of depression, social anxiety, lack of energy, lack of virility, etc. But of course you have to stop watching porn, because porn will lead you to masturbation anyway.

I'm lucky that i've found many books about the harms of masturbation before finding YBOP. If i had found YBOP before, i would put too much focus on stopping Porn and i will forget about masturbation as many guys do. They think porn is the first reason for their problems.

Let's consider two situations:

- A guy who watches porn for one hour everyday, but doesn't masturbate.

- A guy who masturbates one hour everyday without porn.

Who do you think will be the most affected? I'm sure the second one will have all the symptoms that we use to experience: Depression, lack of energy, anxiety, low libido etc. I think that for the first guy porn would just get boring after sometime but he will not experience any major symptom.

Of course that when you watch porn and masturbate your situation gets worse, because it's totally addictive and porn makes you masturbate much more. And the desensitization really occurs in this situation.

Very true. I had an M problem in my teens, very little porn was available to me but I fantasized and beat off. When I first had sex it was disappointing, because my penis was desensitized from years of masturbation.

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Recommended reading: Breaking the Cycle: Free Yourself from Sex Addiction, Porn Obsession, and Shame by George Collins

In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

Your inner addict doesn't deserve a response.

Jerry Seinfeld

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2013, 07:25:30 AM »
Hey LTE, love the photo by the way, not heard from you in a long time!

In answer to your question Yuuichi, I would say that waiting until marriage is fine if that is what you want to do.
I'm not sure you will get any less strange looks telling a women you want to wait than practising some unusual Tantric techniques on her.  When I was single and found someone hot, I'd rather she was a little odd than didn't have sex with me at all.

I'm not sure if Karezza is the same as a orgasm without ejaculation (see The Multi-Orgasmic Man").  But basically I'm not sure a woman would even know if you were doing it.
I plan to practise this myself, I downloaded the kindle version the other day after seeing it recommended on here.  You orgasm but nothing comes out and you can keep going.  This should be great for her as the main complaint is men not lasting long enough.  I can't see a downside to it.

Don't let anyone pressure you into having sex if you don't want to, but if you want to do it, do it.  Humans are designed to have sex after all, but we are not designed to by PMOing constantly and also probably didn't MO that much in the wild either as we'd be too busy surviving.  Napoleon Hill "Think and Grow Rich" had a whole chapter on Sex Transmutation.  He basically said don't waste your sex energy.  I feel he means don't masturbate at all, but sex is OK.  But I want to take this one step further and have ejaculation-less orgasms, which should mean more fun for me.  I feel you want to take it 2 steps further and not have sex at all, which means less fun for you.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do!
29, Married, 1yr Old Son, London, Chartered Accountant, Toastmaster, Interested in; NLP, Fitness, Success

Available to meet up in Covent Garden & the City.



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lte

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2013, 07:41:42 AM »
Jerry,

I can see that you're looking about the same but you might need to shave more often, face, neck, shoulders, back, arms. But I still recognize the arms. :)

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Recommended reading: Breaking the Cycle: Free Yourself from Sex Addiction, Porn Obsession, and Shame by George Collins

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Mike.

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2013, 01:21:19 PM »
Why is it our culture is so obsessed with sex? Men and women for centuries abstained from sexual relations until marriage and then remain in marriage until their death.

I am not the best example mind you but saving yourself for marriage is a way of saying "I am yours, and you are mine". I think if you go into marriage with an expectation of sexual performance or that the person will look hot the rest of their life you are set up for failure.

As St Paul said a couple thousand years ago:

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

IV VV IV VV VIII

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2013, 02:18:25 PM »
From all my research and experiences in abstaining from PMO in the last 2-3 years, i've noticed something quite interesting. In almost every report of someone who's stopped for >90 days, they've become stronger, more confident, more attractive, etc. But this doesn't happen to someone who only goes half-way and quits Porn only, or Porn and Masturbation only (still have sex). They don't experience the benefits to such an extent. Usually, it's just a lessening of brain fog or social anxiety for those who just stopped Porn and Masturbation.

I can't recognize this pattern; that all guys who abstain completely gain all kinds of super powers and guys who start having sex don't. From my perspective, there's no real general tendency. I've read about guys who started having sex after rebooting and still had all the positive benefits from abstaining from daily MO. And guys who've gone hundreds of days with complete abstination and don't feel that much different. I can't recall reading about guys taking up complete celebacy without some other, usually religious, factor, though. Is that the case here as well? Your premise seems pretty faulty, imo. For instance,  there's plenty of proof that orgasms don't necessarily harm a man's vitality. And that a regular orgasm schedule should be malnutitional because of the "loss" of semen is just pseudo-science.

lte

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Re: Total Celibacy Before Marriage. Good Idea? Or Not Worth It?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2013, 04:41:33 PM »
Why is it our culture is so obsessed with sex? Men and women for centuries abstained from sexual relations until marriage and then remain in marriage until their death.

I am not the best example mind you but saving yourself for marriage is a way of saying "I am yours, and you are mine". I think if you go into marriage with an expectation of sexual performance or that the person will look hot the rest of their life you are set up for failure.
I couldn't agree more. The current expectations people have about sex are pretty idealistic. Things were more "uptight" 50 years ago but I think we did better as a civilization back then.

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Recommended reading: Breaking the Cycle: Free Yourself from Sex Addiction, Porn Obsession, and Shame by George Collins

In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

Your inner addict doesn't deserve a response.