Author Topic: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??  (Read 5614 times)

John007

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 12:06:28 PM »
Ok If when you masturbate you think about many different partners or you change scenarios frequently is that the same as watching Internet-porn??I think this has happen before internet porn thats why I am asking

Big Lebowski

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 12:17:20 PM »
John what do you mean, you masturbated to fantasy before porn?

I think that if you're specifically on a reboot you should be abstaining clear from any stimuli and abstain from touching yourself, this is a battle man you've got to fight this but your not on your own. You have us here to help you if you feel like your gonna relapse or you need any tips.

Im on a pretty shitty day atm im flatlining like a bitch, cant be bothered to do fuck all, lifeless down there, i feel asexual in a way, the urge aint even there for a sexual release (masturbation) but I wont cave in this time. This is it, do I want to keep jacking off to 2d images for another 10 years and be in the same circle with all the pmo symptoms, depression, anxiety and pied. Or do I want to abstain.. get my life back on track end my pied get my confidence back like a lion I used to be (no homo).
Porn free since 26th of November 2014, semi regular on the fourm.

Age 21, recovering from Severe PIED & How porn has diminished my motivation and mental well-being.

John007

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
John what do you mean, you masturbated to fantasy before porn?

I think that if you're specifically on a reboot you should be abstaining clear from any stimuli and abstain from touching yourself, this is a battle man you've got to fight this but your not on your own. You have us here to help you if you feel like your gonna relapse or you need any tips.

Im on a pretty shitty day atm im flatlining like a bitch, cant be bothered to do fuck all, lifeless down there, i feel asexual in a way, the urge aint even there for a sexual release (masturbation) but I wont cave in this time. This is it, do I want to keep jacking off to 2d images for another 10 years and be in the same circle with all the pmo symptoms, depression, anxiety and pied. Or do I want to abstain.. get my life back on track end my pied get my confidence back like a lion I used to be (no homo).
Well yes I had my Internet when I was 16,so before that I had 3-4 dvds very few videos on my phone and I remember masturbating fantasying girls from my class not wathing anything just imagining different scenarios different girls,how is that different from porn now?

Big Lebowski

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2013, 12:28:48 PM »
I havent got a clue mate, change the title and put Gary in that title see if he can come in here and help.
Porn free since 26th of November 2014, semi regular on the fourm.

Age 21, recovering from Severe PIED & How porn has diminished my motivation and mental well-being.

Gary Wilson

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2013, 04:47:16 PM »
Quote
Ok If when you masturbate you think about many different partners or you change scenarios frequently is that the same as watching Internet-porn??I think this has happen before internet porn that's why I am asking

My thoughts. Your imagination can never match High speed internet porn. First, dopamine spikes for searching, seeking and anticipation of a new image or video. Second, dopamine spikes with novelty - your imagination arise from your thoughts and previous experiencing - can't really be novel, can it? Dopamine spikes for new genres and scenarios, or new actresses - your mind can only rehash what you have already seen. If you have spent years watching porn that could be a problem, if you haven't than it's not.

Quote
Well yes I had my Internet when I was 16, so before that I had 3-4 dvds very few videos on my phone and I remember masturbating fantasying girls from my class not watching anything just imagining different scenarios different girls,how is that different from porn now?

This points to what adolescence with porn is like compared to without. I only saw pictures of a few naked women when I was 12-15. What could I imagine? Maybe feeling them up, but not much else. Porn creates sexual scenarios that we didn't have. So one could place real life girls into these scenarios. We could not in the 60-70s

That said, some of the older guys find fantasy a problem, as it replaces reality.


« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:50:20 PM by Gary Wilson »

bigproblem

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2013, 05:29:46 PM »
i think masturbation to light touch is ok once in a blue moon, but if you already have this problem than you need to abstain till your erections are stellar.

simonsays

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2013, 09:50:36 AM »
PIED could take 2-3 years to go away if you masturbate.
What?!?!!

Dan82

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2013, 11:37:28 AM »
PIED could take 2-3 years to go away if you masturbate.
What?!?!!

yes this is true.

Gary Wilson

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2013, 12:00:32 PM »
 
Ok If when you masturbate you think about many different partners or you change scenarios frequently is that the same as watching Internet-porn??I think this has happen before internet porn thats why I am asking

It's not the same as Internet porn. Imagine if you are 13. in 1965, all you can masturbate about is what you know - and what you know is nothing. So you masturbate thinking about feeling up a girl in math class or Barbra Eden. Even if you get a hold of playboy you only have your imagination - so you are back to feeling up miss September.

Fast forward to 2013 - steaming videos of real people having "real" sex. It replaces the teen imagination...completely. But that's just one aspect.

What makes Internet porn different? Novelty, shock, surprise, and searching - ALL elevate dopamine. You can't surprise or shock yourself with your imagination; you can't search for the perfect shot with your imagination; you can't find a new actor or a new genre in your brain. Your are limited to what you already know - which is the antithesis of the internet.

See - Porn Then and Now: Welcome to Brain Training http://yourbrainonporn.com/porn-then-and-now-welcome-to-brain-training



« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 01:12:24 PM by Gary Wilson »

carpe_moment

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2013, 01:00:16 PM »
This

I don't think anyone on this message board has any business with his dick in his hand for a looooong time, but then again, everyone has different goals. Me personally? I want to eliminate any traces of PIED, flatline, perversions, etc. MO only leads to PMO. We are all addicts, and are wired to immediately associate one with the other.

Want to get better? Let go of the piddly, weak, self induced orgasms and heal your brain by leaving masturbation alone. Sacrifice and watch better changes appear in your life.

Hardihood

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2013, 01:17:50 PM »
Ok If when you masturbate you think about many different partners or you change scenarios frequently is that the same as watching Internet-porn??I think this has happen before internet porn thats why I am asking

It's not the same as Internet porn. Imagine if you are 13. in 1965, all you can masturbate about is what you know - and what you know is nothing. So you masturbate thinking about feeling up a girl in math class or Barbra Eden. Even if you get a hold of playboy you only have your imagination - so you are back to feeling up miss September.

What makes internet so different - steaming videos of real people having "real" sex. It replaces the teen imagination...completely.

What makes Internet porn different? Novelty, shock, surprise, and searching - ALL elevate dopamine. You can't surprise or shock yourself with your imagination; you can't search for the perfect shot with your imagination; you can't find a new actor or a new genre in your brain. Your are limited to what you already know - which is the antithesis of the internet.

See - Porn Then and Now: Welcome to Brain Training http://yourbrainonporn.com/porn-then-and-now-welcome-to-brain-training

Hi Gary, its great you chimed in.

I totally agree with your assessment of the effects of high speed internet porn. I'm 53 and single. I realize I've been addicted to porn since I first saw some at about 15. I've also dreamed of Jeannie many times in bed as a teenager.  ;) But of course with high speed internet its like having a pile of crack just sitting there on top of your computer for free just for the taking anytime and for any length of time.

This is why I am now concentrating on the P part of my problem first. I want to know your opinion on this approach. I did go 67 days no PMO last year and for lesser times since. But each time I have crashed hard. So my new approach is to not deny myself MO, as long as it is done in bed away from the computer. (Its difficult not to use past images of porn in my head though.) I also try and resist every night and so far I have got it down to around 2 times a week. ie..I continue to try and talk myself out of M until the desire to sleep overtakes the desire to touch myself. It works most nights. But even if I give in, when I compare a 5 or 10 minute MO in bed and rolling over to sleep to an 8 hour pornfest on the internet all night (which was the length of my last binge) leaving me with an almost bleeding dick and sore for days... its no contest.

So I would first like to tackle the P addiction problem on its own. So I am attempting a 90 day no P. And that is all.  If I can get through 90 days of no P I will hopefully continue that for the rest of my life.  Only then I may try a no PMO again. I would like to get rid of my ED problem and feel confident to start a new relationship eventually.

BadOnion

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2013, 01:31:43 PM »
Well I'm not him but I believe the advice is that you need some period of no O to fix the ED, so that would preclude M. As I said in my other thread, after 4 months of trying, I came to that conclusion myself. I just don't know how long the no O will need to be.
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Hardihood

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2013, 02:35:35 PM »
Well I'm not him but I believe the advice is that you need some period of no O to fix the ED, so that would preclude M. As I said in my other thread, after 4 months of trying, I came to that conclusion myself. I just don't know how long the no O will need to be.

Yes I agree. But my approach is to first defeat the P habit, and then work on the ED with no MO when I know I can handle staying away from P with a little more confidence. I don't know, I just think this internet porn addiction is more important a hurdle to get over right now than even my ED, which may be partly related to age.

I've shifted my priorities. The main, well only, reason I was so enthused the when I first saw YBOP was to overcome my ED, with giving up P being the price. Now that that did not work out as planned, I am going at it from another direction. I want to first overcome my instant reflex reaction to click on porn images to get sexual relief, because of the consequences we all know about,...time wasted, feeling like shit, and a distorted view of women... and then tackle the ED.

simonsays

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2013, 06:01:40 PM »
PIED could take 2-3 years to go away if you masturbate.
What?!?!!

yes this is true.
From what data source?  What study group?  The nofap movement hasn't be around long enough to make assumptions that recovery can take 3 years.

Gary Wilson

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2013, 08:03:42 PM »
Quote
This is why I am now concentrating on the P part of my problem first. I want to know your opinion on this approach. I did go 67 days no PMO last year and for lesser times since. But each time I have crashed hard. So my new approach is to not deny myself MO, as long as it is done in bed away from the computer. (Its difficult not to use past images of porn in my head though.)

Rebooting was created primarily by guys who had porn-induced ED. As a result, almost all of the early stories were about ED, and all with ED were abstaining from masturbation. Other followed suit, even if they didn't have ED, because they didn't want to trigger a relapse into porn.

Then nofap hit it big and no masturbation to orgasm became a goal unto itself - with some nofapper continuing to watch porn or edging without ejaculation (say what?). A meme was born.

Then it was discovered that young men who spent their adolescence watching porn were taking so much longer o recover from PIED, and that some guys your age could cure PIED while still occasionally orgasming.

Then theunderdog pushed the orgasm reboot to get guys to limit masturbation, but to really prevent binging on porn. If you are going to masturbate, then by god masturbate, but no porn or porn fantasizing or recalling. And If you can't masturbate without porn, then you aren't really horny...are you?

Whatever path one takes it really comes down to a single goal - separating sexual arousal from artificial stimuli.


« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:06:10 PM by Gary Wilson »

Gary Wilson

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2013, 08:14:17 PM »
PIED could take 2-3 years to go away if you masturbate.
What?!?!!

yes this is true.
From what data source?  What study group?  The nofap movement hasn't be around long enough to make assumptions that recovery can take 3 years.

Nofap has been around since 2006. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/no-fap-september-no-fap-months#fn5

"Rebooting to cure ED" started in a few places long before reddit woke up - such as my wife's forum 6 years ago (or longer?).

As I said in my ED start here article, almost all guys with PIED who continued masturbating during their reboot never got back to us. Our forum had many guys show up who wanted to try masturbation/orgasm reboots. So we don't know the answer to how long with masturbation. Beside one guy might see regular masturbation as once a week, while for another guy it's twice a day.

Of course length of reboot depends on the age one started high speed, sexual experience, and severity of ED, or severity of addiction related brain changes. So many factors.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 12:19:33 PM by Gary Wilson »

Henry

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2013, 08:16:42 PM »
I don't understand what's the problem with masturbating 2-3 times a week?


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Striveforpurity

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2013, 11:49:24 AM »
I don't understand what's the problem with masturbating 2-3 times a week?

Because you are harming your body and allowing for BIG temptation to watch pornography.
If defintion of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Then why do we keep running to the same filth even though it hurt us yesterday?



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Ryan94

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2013, 11:57:35 AM »
When masturbating to sensation, does that mean if you touch your penis and it goes up, it's all fine?
Or does it already have to be hard first before you masturbate?

Screeching Eagle

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2013, 01:25:50 PM »
I cannot masturbate unless I fantasize. My imagination is terrible so I just replay porn scenes in my head. Masturbation is a no no for me.

flamingwind

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2013, 03:06:14 PM »
I'm wondering how much would you want to masturbate after months of not doing not

geniussy

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2013, 07:21:47 AM »
For those who are talking about addiction is forever like the alcoholic case, I'm not a video games addict since 2007. I was it since 94 anyway and that was really bad. I was depressed when I was not able to play (when my mom hides it for my studies for example) while I have never been depressed when I leave PMO just so you know that it was worse than my PMO addiction. I was playing all day, every day if that was possible !

Now, I hate to play those video games. When I'm with my friends playing, I act like my daddy if you know what I mean, watching people playing without trying to have a round. And even when I try, I'm not keen to play a second time. The addiction is gone. The same goes to MO.

Like sex addiction is different from porn addiction, alcohol addiction is also different from porn addiction.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 07:24:26 AM by Success4sure »

Big Lebowski

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Re: What's wrong with masturbating without porn??
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2013, 04:19:41 PM »
For those who are talking about addiction is forever like the alcoholic case, I'm not a video games addict since 2007. I was it since 94 anyway and that was really bad. I was depressed when I was not able to play (when my mom hides it for my studies for example) while I have never been depressed when I leave PMO just so you know that it was worse than my PMO addiction. I was playing all day, every day if that was possible !

Now, I hate to play those video games. When I'm with my friends playing, I act like my daddy if you know what I mean, watching people playing without trying to have a round. And even when I try, I'm not keen to play a second time. The addiction is gone. The same goes to MO.

Like sex addiction is different from porn addiction, alcohol addiction is also different from porn addiction.

Exactly. Spot on. Im not addicted to porn no more, it does not seem appealing whatsoever now. I think personally actually scrap that I know im more of an MO addict then I was P. I just loved wanking and getting the high after because of the escape etc.. the porn to me was only a bonus albeit feeding my lust, I escalated got pied, had to skip to my favorite scene in a vid to cum etc.. But it seems to me than excessive mo is my problem and I keep feeding it endless drug (porn) which is just as bad.
Porn free since 26th of November 2014, semi regular on the fourm.

Age 21, recovering from Severe PIED & How porn has diminished my motivation and mental well-being.