Author Topic: Relapse = back to day one?  (Read 5908 times)

Departure

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Relapse = back to day one?
« on: March 31, 2012, 06:48:20 AM »
According to YBOP, a relapse only stalls the proccess, it doesn't ruin it.

It's probably true, but it doesn't feel that way. After 45 days without PMO, I slipped and felt bad about it. That made me slip again yesterday 3 times. I cant help but feel I ruined it.

Let's say you set a 90 day goal and relapse... do you still count the old days at all?
How do you look at a relapse?


« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 06:50:19 AM by lggh »

High_Achiever

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 07:04:17 AM »
no, you're not back at day 0. YBOP is right.

You'll probably feel bad for a while, and a big part of this is going to be psychological guilt.

Just keep going and learn from your relapse. Ask yourself what triggered it? Was my computer protected? If you can provide an awnser for these questions, then your chances or relapsing won't exist anymore.

My guess is that you also saw differences in the way you responded to porn? For me I noticed that I could finish far more easily. Instead of the usual 30-45 minute sessions, or longer.

GABE

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • Porn gave me a limp noodle
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 07:22:13 AM »
No you do not go all the way back.
This is about SELF CONTROL and MOTIVATION

*addiction is a disease, addiction is a choice, addiction is a disease of choices!*

The Whole problem with setting a goal of "90 days no PMO" is that you haven't yet made the decision to never watch porn again...I realize baby steps are good and yes I think counting days is good motivation in the beginning for guys to do. BUT really you should focus on counting days without orgasm (the no P needs to be a lifelong thing or your playing with blazing hot fire) because orgasm is the only thing your temporarily going without...

the reason so many guys relapse is porn is still an option but when your mind is made up to NEVER watch it again...you won't.. and if you do brush it off and keep going

You CAN do this man.. Take this for example
If you give an extreme alcoholic a shot glass full of liquor and set it in front of him he's going to drink it.. But if you hold a gun to his head and say if you drink it I'll blow your brains out..he's not going to drink it (unless he would rather die) but there are some extreme alcoholics that have made up their mind to not drink and would simply say.. No thanks

Porn is robbing you of living a healthy life.. So find the motivation and DECIDE TODAY it's not an option
Or the relapses will keep on coming
Much Love


« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 07:34:30 AM by GABE »
Join me in raising awareness and helping others at RebootNation.org

TheUnderdog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3401
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 08:20:00 AM »
The Whole problem with setting a goal of "90 days no PMO" is that you haven't yet made the decision to never watch porn again...I realize baby steps are good and yes I think counting days is good motivation in the beginning for guys to do. BUT really you should focus on counting days without orgasm (the no P needs to be a lifelong thing or your playing with blazing hot fire) because orgasm is the only thing your temporarily going without...

the reason so many guys relapse is porn is still an option but when your mind is made up to NEVER watch it again...you won't.. and if you do brush it off and keep going

Dude.

You really GET it.

Diablo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 08:23:52 AM »
No you do not go all the way back.
This is about SELF CONTROL and MOTIVATION

*addiction is a disease, addiction is a choice, addiction is a disease of choices!*

The Whole problem with setting a goal of "90 days no PMO" is that you haven't yet made the decision to never watch porn again...I realize baby steps are good and yes I think counting days is good motivation in the beginning for guys to do. BUT really you should focus on counting days without orgasm (the no P needs to be a lifelong thing or your playing with blazing hot fire) because orgasm is the only thing your temporarily going without...

the reason so many guys relapse is porn is still an option but when your mind is made up to NEVER watch it again...you won't.. and if you do brush it off and keep going

You CAN do this man.. Take this for example
If you give an extreme alcoholic a shot glass full of liquor and set it in front of him he's going to drink it.. But if you hold a gun to his head and say if you drink it I'll blow your brains out..he's not going to drink it (unless he would rather die) but there are some extreme alcoholics that have made up their mind to not drink and would simply say.. No thanks

Porn is robbing you of living a healthy life.. So find the motivation and DECIDE TODAY it's not an option
Or the relapses will keep on coming
Much Love

Very well said!!

I read a comment on here that without Marnia and Gary regulary contributing to this site it's sort of like the blind leading the blind. Which although this site is great and i appreciate all the support sometimes it can seem true.

You seem to know alot and speak alot of sense. Im glad your here and hope you stick around.

Peace bro

Departure

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 09:34:41 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Glad to see this forum is pretty active.

no, you're not back at day 0. YBOP is right.

You'll probably feel bad for a while, and a big part of this is going to be psychological guilt.

Just keep going and learn from your relapse. Ask yourself what triggered it? Was my computer protected? If you can provide an awnser for these questions, then your chances or relapsing won't exist anymore.

My guess is that you also saw differences in the way you responded to porn? For me I noticed that I could finish far more easily. Instead of the usual 30-45 minute sessions, or longer.
A bunch of things triggered it... It started with a sexual scene in a movie, which didn't do much for me, but then I was bored, alone with the computer and had a bad mood... Mood is probably the biggest factor. Looking back, it was much better then than it is now.

But yes, I did notice a difference -  it took less time to get fully hard and I didn't even need anything different or specific, it was a pretty basic video, and of course the orgasm was more intense. So I definitely noticed an improvement, but I still shouldn't have gone 3 times again yesterday. I don't even feel a need right now, which it makes it feel like I ruined my progress, but hopefully it's just psychological guilt or something.


No you do not go all the way back.
This is about SELF CONTROL and MOTIVATION

*addiction is a disease, addiction is a choice, addiction is a disease of choices!*

The Whole problem with setting a goal of "90 days no PMO" is that you haven't yet made the decision to never watch porn again...I realize baby steps are good and yes I think counting days is good motivation in the beginning for guys to do. BUT really you should focus on counting days without orgasm (the no P needs to be a lifelong thing or your playing with blazing hot fire) because orgasm is the only thing your temporarily going without...

the reason so many guys relapse is porn is still an option but when your mind is made up to NEVER watch it again...you won't.. and if you do brush it off and keep going

You CAN do this man.. Take this for example
If you give an extreme alcoholic a shot glass full of liquor and set it in front of him he's going to drink it.. But if you hold a gun to his head and say if you drink it I'll blow your brains out..he's not going to drink it (unless he would rather die) but there are some extreme alcoholics that have made up their mind to not drink and would simply say.. No thanks

Porn is robbing you of living a healthy life.. So find the motivation and DECIDE TODAY it's not an option
Or the relapses will keep on coming
Much Love
That's an interesting way of looking at it... simple but true. It's hard to think about cutting it off forever, it always felt temporary to me.

I guess counting the days and thinking about how I shouldn't slip also keeps the option in my mind.

High_Achiever

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 09:58:25 AM »
Mood was definetly a big one for me. Particurarily when I was bored or tired. I really had to watch out with masturbation or looking up erotic material.I would highly recommend you to install K9 for a while on your computer. That way you learn from the relapse and you're safe. Later you can still remove it, but definetly pay attention to your behavior in that period.

I also highly disagree with the statement that guys relapse because porn is still an option in their mind. It's not, it's simply to strong for a lot of them. How many people have wasted their entire savings due to a gambling addiction? How many people have been violent or hurtfull towards other people because off an alcohol or drug addiction? That's how powerfull an addiction can be. Yes willpower is involved in this, but not to the extent that you would think it is. My environment is now 100% porn free. But I can still go to a store and order a video and watch later it on, but I use my willpower to control that. On my facebook there are certain facebook channels of porn stars that I can watch, but I use my willpower to control that.

In these situations it's far more easier to say no, then when you're still having full access to internet porn. When I had did my first 21 days of no PMO, I got triggered by an erotic show on tv and I relapsed that day. A computer was open and I watched porn for 45 minutes. Wow intense :D. I knew it was bad, but at that moment, it was simply too strong. So, use K9 to help condition yourself in dealing with this addiction. There is no shame in admitting this. Hell I've even asked the help off my environment.

TheUnderdog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3401
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 09:59:26 AM »
Quitting porn forever and counting days are not mutually exclusive.

Let's say you quit porn forever, but want to go 50 days of complete abstinence (no masturbation, no sex). Porn is not an option anymore in your life, but you would be counting the days you will be abstaining from orgasm.

TheUnderdog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3401
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 10:05:19 AM »
I also highly disagree with the statement that guys relapse because porn is still an option in their mind.

Making the decision to quit porn forever makes everything so much easier.

A person who says "I will try to go 1 month without porn" is much more likely to relapse than a person who says "I will never watch porn ever again in my life".

Accountability is huge as well. You have no idea how much my signature is helping me. I feel like I can't let anyone down (including myself).

jj314

  • Guest
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 12:29:15 PM »
I'm at the point where I'm counting the days/weeks from being away from porn just so I can feel normal again. I feel like I'm officially OFF porn and masturbation and that anything goes in terms of sex. In the past I would count just to know how far I've gone without PMO which ended up being 95 days. At that point I was ready to fully engage with a woman and not have ED. Now with all the breaks and relapses that I've had, I feel I need to focus on putting my energy into being with someone even if I orgasm or still have ED because porn will bring me down badly.

And yes it doesn't mean your back to day 1. Just keep going and start interacting with the ladies more!

Departure

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »
High Acheiever, I just installed K9. I tested it and it works against most of the sites I usually visit, except one. Some porn still gets through the strict filter of Google Images - that's usually where I fail. I like how it blocks most things though, giving me one more chance to go back and think again.

The Underdog, your signature is a good idea. Nice reminder.

jj314, did you find success after 95 days? It sounds like you're fine now.

bigproblem

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 499
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 04:30:25 PM »
As far as those people that are saying to count or not count the days and so forth. You can and you can not. But does it really matter. Look at it this way. This isnt some thing where you are a first grader waiting to graduate 12 th grade. Or a convicted felon counting the days to release. This is a lifestyle change and its permanent. Bring yourself to understand that porn is not normal and living your new lifestyle is normal and sexually healthy. This crap has been holding you back from a good social life, a relationship with a girl, always wondering whether you can perform. I'm sure that the guys that can get it up within seconds dont wonder whether they can perfom. I m 100 percent positive that they have so much more confidence. They are more aggressive. They know what they want and they take it. Women respond to this. They want an alpha male. This goes back to the days of our ancestors running around in the forest. Or even back to the day when it wasnt humans, but monkeys and even further then that. You get the point. Females have one egg to be fertilized. They want it fertilized by a big strong protective male. Not some lame sissy nice guy. Today "big strong protective male" could also mean not only big and strong but someone who makes alot of money, very smart and so forth, but of course height, strength etc all count. Women can see how confident you are and if you always have this little problem that you are ashamed of, that you need to hide. You will almost never be really really confident. The kind of confidence that resembles an alpha male. Ready to penetrate any moment. Bending her over within seconds. Taking what he wants.

No, you will be a lame pussy that will always remember that your penis does not work.

PS "you" is not directed toward anyone specific.

GABE

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • Porn gave me a limp noodle
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 08:31:01 PM »

I also highly disagree with the statement that guys relapse because porn is still an option in their mind. It's not, it's simply to strong for a lot of them. How many people have wasted their entire savings due to a gambling addiction? How many people have been violent or hurtfull towards other people because off an alcohol or drug addiction? That's how powerfull an addiction can be. Yes willpower is involved in this, but not to the extent that you would think it is.

Well, I HIGHLY disagree with you. willpower is involved MORE than you think it is.

If the 'addict' makes up his mind (a choice) to not do whatever it is that he/she is addicted to becuase the END result is something they dont want and i mean REALLY DONT WANT,  they wont do it. I have seen and gone through MANY different addictions and ALWAYS the addict does not change until...
 A.) they hit rock bottom (ED for example, or getting a divorce and loosing family because of an alcohol addiction)  OR...
B.) they realize what they are doing to themselves and learn how to stop it

the reason most people cant quit addictions is they cannot handle/are not willing to go through the withdrawl phase. I see it all the time in food addicts, and porn addicts and internet addicts and alcoholics. You name it... the people that fail have not made up their minds on changing for good..they want to change but arnt WILLing to deal with the pain that comes with quiting!

you want personal experience to back up my statements? well here you go, i watched porn EVERYDAY since the ripe age of 10! im 24 now... by the time i was in 7th grade i was already hooked on very hardcore porn...i quit porn COLD TURKEY on may 17th of last year when i realized i could not get an erection without it. i had no idea how PAINFUL the withdrawl phase was going to be...at about 3 and 4 months after quiting i could NOT sleep...hair started falling out... i would shake, have muscle aches, throw things and start crying out for help, and tons of other stuff i never dreamed i would ge through.. but I NEVER gave looking at porn a thought.. i even look away when there are sex scenes in movies

Back to my example above... alcoholic and a gun... you hold a gun to a alcoholics head that hasnt had a drink in 3 weeks with a whole bottle of his favorite liquor sitting right in front of him... HE WONT DRINK IT!... its a choice...

porn blockers and all that jazz.. are good... for the whole family. BUT if thats what is keeping you from looking at porn, i will be here to say "its ok man brush it off and try again" when you relapse.

a wise guy once said "when you want to succeed as bad as you want to breath, THEN you will be successful"

Whatever works for you though just my advice man...  just here to help and give advice and answers to people that need/want them
much love


« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 08:35:04 PM by GABE »
Join me in raising awareness and helping others at RebootNation.org

High_Achiever

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2012, 01:27:44 AM »

I also highly disagree with the statement that guys relapse because porn is still an option in their mind. It's not, it's simply to strong for a lot of them. How many people have wasted their entire savings due to a gambling addiction? How many people have been violent or hurtfull towards other people because off an alcohol or drug addiction? That's how powerfull an addiction can be. Yes willpower is involved in this, but not to the extent that you would think it is.

Well, I HIGHLY disagree with you. willpower is involved MORE than you think it is.

If the 'addict' makes up his mind (a choice) to not do whatever it is that he/she is addicted to becuase the END result is something they dont want and i mean REALLY DONT WANT,  they wont do it. I have seen and gone through MANY different addictions and ALWAYS the addict does not change until...
 A.) they hit rock bottom (ED for example, or getting a divorce and loosing family because of an alcohol addiction)  OR...
B.) they realize what they are doing to themselves and learn how to stop it

the reason most people cant quit addictions is they cannot handle/are not willing to go through the withdrawl phase. I see it all the time in food addicts, and porn addicts and internet addicts and alcoholics. You name it... the people that fail have not made up their minds on changing for good..they want to change but arnt WILLing to deal with the pain that comes with quiting!

you want personal experience to back up my statements? well here you go, i watched porn EVERYDAY since the ripe age of 10! im 24 now... by the time i was in 7th grade i was already hooked on very hardcore porn...i quit porn COLD TURKEY on may 17th of last year when i realized i could not get an erection without it. i had no idea how PAINFUL the withdrawl phase was going to be...at about 3 and 4 months after quiting i could NOT sleep...hair started falling out... i would shake, have muscle aches, throw things and start crying out for help, and tons of other stuff i never dreamed i would ge through.. but I NEVER gave looking at porn a thought.. i even look away when there are sex scenes in movies

Back to my example above... alcoholic and a gun... you hold a gun to a alcoholics head that hasnt had a drink in 3 weeks with a whole bottle of his favorite liquor sitting right in front of him... HE WONT DRINK IT!... its a choice...

porn blockers and all that jazz.. are good... for the whole family. BUT if thats what is keeping you from looking at porn, i will be here to say "its ok man brush it off and try again" when you relapse.

a wise guy once said "when you want to succeed as bad as you want to breath, THEN you will be successful"

Whatever works for you though just my advice man...  just here to help and give advice and answers to people that need/want them
much love

I've already replied to this in another thread.

Here's the key question one should ask himself: "What works for me?".

Think about it. Comparing ourselves with eachother isn't going to help us here at all. Why? People have different levels of addiction to begin with and also different lifestyle situations.

What K9 does, is simply give your willpower a little boost. Hell, I can still go to the video story around the corner and buy/rent a porn dvd. I can insert it in my laptop and K9 won't block it. But my willpower is strong enough to resist that urge. So how do I deal with relapses? Well I always try to take something away from it, so that future relapses will be prevented. F.E. I noticed that I tend to think about relapses when I'm alone at night and when I'm surfing the internet late in the evening. So I've blocked the acces to internet from 6 p.m. till 6 a.m. in the morning. This puts me at ease. We all know that dopamine is an anticipation hormone. I've really noticed that even though I'm tired, the thought that there is access to porn can keep me awake for hours!

In the student dorm room where I stay during the week, I have no access to TV at all. When I return home during the weekends, I almost never watch tv. If I watch tv for 30 minutes a week, it's already a lot. Before, I would actually watch tv a whole lot more.  Do you notice how this has conditioned me to watch less tv? If I want to say no, it's way easier.

I can agree that in a perfect world, we should be able to do this without aids. But we don't live in a perfect world. Everybody who has relapsed knows that these urges can get extremely strong. It doesn't even have to be an urge, you're surfing the net and there you go a trigger and oh it leads to more and more. And before you know it, you just can't say stop. This is the number one 1 rule to detect an addiction, if you want to stop it but you can't. So why soleley rely on willpower? Does your ego get a little boost from it? The goal here isn't to be perfectionistic, the goal is finding a way to succeed.

So let's say you have K9 for 2 months on your computer. In those two months, you can work on finding new replacement activities (if you had a crappy lifestyle). You can learn meditation and pick up concentration excercises to strengten your will. If he decides to stop K9 after these two months is he going to be able to resist it more. Probably. You can actually compare this perfectly with a new diet that you're following. Let's say on day one, you throw all the bad food out of your house and in the supermarket you only buy the healthy foods. You repeat this once every week. Now, let's take another situation. You still start the diet, but you're still having the "forbidden" foods in your house. Who's more likely to succeed? The majority of the time we all eat healthy, but hey we all have cravings for a greasy snack every once in a while.

Frankly, do alcoholics still keep alcohol in their house? I don't think so, so why would porn addicts keep access to porn. On the YBOP website, I read about one guy who took his internet modem and left it at work. So he couldn't watch porn at home. Can he still watch porn at work? Absolutely, but it gives him a little aid.

rule of thumb: you're environment will always beat your willpower. Can you still succeed? Absolutely, but it will be harder. Why make it harder on yourself?


yes willpower is important off course. Any more common sense? What I disagree with is the notion that if you relapse it's because of a lack of willpower (or not making up your mind). I hear these statements from internet hero's all the time. People who relapse, often want to quit porn, they are just way too addicted to it. That's also why I don't like comparing yourself with others. You have no idea how addicted somebody was, therefore you can't make the comparison.

What I disliked about your and underdog's opinion was the entire "K9 is bad, it should all be about willpower". That's also why I started my reply with the question "What works for me?". Read my reply, willpower is always involved in it.

My point is, you can keep K9 on your computer and still want to get rid of porn completely. That's what I'm arguing against. People who use K9 arn't people who still keep porn as an option in their mind. The same goes for people who relapse.

My point is and still remains, design your environment in such a way that it helps you instead of limiting you.

@the gun example. Ever heared stories of a guy who rubbed one out in his pants in a hotel lobby? A guy who watches porn when at work? Sure a gun is a powerfull motivator. But here's the key: it requires the help from your environment. Or are you seriously going to hold a gun to your own head.




Withnail

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 04:49:17 AM »
Totally agree with the posts that say you should aim to give up porn forever. A recovering alcoholic does not aim to not drink for 30 days and then start drinking on day 31. This is counter productive, I know the two addictions are very different but the same principle still applies. I dont understand why Gabe is so against Porn Blockers, what is the negative effect of blocking porn from the internet. I installed a porn blocker and I havent thought about watching porn since because IT IS NOT AN OPTION, I will not go out and buy porn mags, I will not drive to a friends house to view porn on his computer my addiction levels are routed in the fact that it is easy to access. The whole if you block porn you are not making a choice does not make any sense, removing the temptation when possible is standard practice in all forms of addiction recovery. Do you feel like you can take the higher moral ground because you yourself have not installed a porn blocker so somehow your recovery is more meaningful than that of other people? and yes I know you havent said that but thats really how it is coming across. If someone thinks a porn blocker can aid their recovery who are you to say otherwise?

Its like those people who give up cigarettes through willpower alone and brag about how they didnt need help and feel better than people who give up with the aid of a nicotine patch. This is not a competition, I am not competing with anyone other than myself.


« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 05:57:03 AM by Withnail »

Ballboy11

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 354
    • View Profile
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 11:24:15 AM »
What if your relapse was only with masturbation and no porn? Is that less damaging? I have given up on porn forever, especially the internet and video porn. I haven't viewed porn since january. After my 90 day reboot all orgasms will be with a woman, and atleast with no porn present if I have to masturbate. Good theory???

bosseau

  • Guest
Re: Relapse = back to day one?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 11:29:40 AM »
Yep, once your reboot is over then MO is fine (and healthy)