Author Topic: Relapse/Future Porn Use  (Read 3128 times)

BoatShoes

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Relapse/Future Porn Use
« on: September 04, 2012, 07:39:38 PM »
Sup.

Cliffs of my situation:
ages 16-26 consisted of frequent and unhealthy porn habits. I never really escalated the types of porn - I've always stuck to simple straightforward videos that I like, but I would go through the routine of browsing a TON of this one type. Opening bunches of tabs, repeating multiple times a day etc. Earlier this year started dating a girl and experienced some ED issues. Read all I could on YBOP and realized had to reboot. Went 45 Days with no PMO (well 45 days no PM, 30 days no O). ED issues went away. Went with occasional porn use afterwards - though not often because of healthy sex life with girlfriend. Then in late august had a few days where I binged pretty hard. ED is still gone, but can see some signs of it returning - reached point again where could no longer masturbate without porn and even with porn became difficult to find something 'good enough', so I'm dumping the porn again for a while.

Now I've read that the vast consensus here seems to be that no porn ever for the rest of your life - even looking down on those that inquire about it. While I understand I have an issue with it, I don't really see why a complete abstinence policy has to be the answer. Besides the rush and clear unhealthiness i can see from binging I do legitimately enjoy porn and am sad that my brain may have been damaged by it's use. I'd like to be able to enjoy it responsibly, I can't imagine I'm the only one that feels this way. Also my girlfriend has expressed a desire to watch porn with me, and that's something that I'd like to do. Now that won't be for a while as I'm going into abstain mode, but I'm curious to hear from anyone that has successfully returned to safe porn use. There has to be someone out there. Does porn with a partner even count as part of the PMO cycle? It's still tied to a real person/part of actually fooling around/not used as a device to get hard.

Kinda rushed to type this out, may have more questions later. Thanks for any insight.


Pedigree

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 08:18:57 PM »
I think the fact that you, and the rest of us are here, shows that this is a vice that we can't enjoy moderately and responsibly. Hell, like you said, you went with "occasional porn use" after your 45 days and ended up with "porn became difficult to find something 'good enough'".

This thought has crossed my mind but the benefits I've gained so far are too numerous for me to just lightly throw away.

Gary Wilson

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 09:25:17 PM »
The most commonly accepted definition of addiction: "Continued use despite negative consequences."

BoatShoes

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 10:17:09 PM »
Not trying to argue just to understand. I see the negative consequences, so I'm stopping, but it doesn't make sense to me that I'll never be able to use something that didn't always cause me a problem - and can be used by a large part of the population without issues. Is controlled use going to cause the same damage? I can understand any use causing an urge to relapse, but is that the danger? if will power stops a binge/downward spiral from happening will the symptoms I experience return?

Also still curious about porn with girlfriend/as a part of foreplay/sex, still a big no?

Fiddler

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 10:38:16 PM »
if will power stops a binge/downward spiral from happening will the symptoms I experience return?

It could stop the spiral now but what in a few weeks/months? Are you sure that "controlled" porn use will not lead to a stronger addiction?

I caressed the same ideas you have exposed here for 1 year and porn addiction has only got worse. It was a mistake that I don't want you to make.
I am the captain of my pain; My journal

BreakingIntoReality

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 11:47:57 PM »
The danger likely here is that the porn will become more exciting than your girlfriend. She's human and has self respect after all. Pornographic pixels have neither of these limitations. You'll eventually expand your pornographic tastes since your sex will be based on the porn, and not her. If It's based on porn, it will be subject to neverending novelty, always. So your girlfriend will get fed up with you asking her to do things she's not comfortable with, since the damn abused pixels will do it for you, but she will not. You should find satisfaction with your girlfriend, enjoy every aspect about her, love her, seek out ways to work with her, and leave porn out of it.



atl6245

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 03:58:21 AM »
I don't know if this will help; but, when you use porn (with or without your girlfriend) you are introducing a third person to your relationship. Does it feel good? Yes. Is it exciting? Yes. However, A true committed relationship is meant for two people, not three. Your real girlfriend WILL eventually become jealous of your porn girlfriend. Porn is always there, on demand, when you want it. It does things your real girlfriend won't always do. Porn is never not in the mood or sick or just plain bored. Porn can be anything you want it to be- blonde, brunette, big breast, small breast, three-some, gay, etc. Well, you poor real girlfriend, she is who she is. She can't compete. Long term it will kill your relationship.

Here's the bottom line. Your girlfriend may be interested in looking at porn simply because you are and she thinks it will bring you closer. You KNOW it's bad for the both of you. Get a pair and be a leader. Tell her no, you're trying to quit because you know it affects you and the relationship negatively. She'll respect the heck out of you and probably give it up to you on the spot (sorry for the crudeness).

Otherwise, you just aren't ready yet. You haven't reached the point of destruction and flame out. All we're trying to do is warn you and give you the wisdom of our experience. We can't stop you from driving off a cliff. We just put the warning sign up.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be."  -John Wooden

Character is not placed in us from birth, it is forged into us with the hammer of failure and the heat of adversity. - ATL6245

Gary Wilson

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 09:10:27 AM »
Quote
but it doesn't make sense to me that I'll never be able to use something that didn't always cause me a problem - and can be used by a large part of the population without issues

Not to be belligerent, but this could easily be a quote from a new member of AA.

I'll take issue with "can be used by a large part of the population without issue"

If we limit our discussion to the population of males who have known nothing but Internet porn (ages 12-30), I don't think we can safely say that they have no issues.

Many men who quit porn use find that it has affected them in many more ways than simply libido or sexual function. Huge sections of YBOP are devoted to this, as was the infamous TED talk by Phillip Zimbardo: The Demise of Guys

Whatever negative effects Internet porn causes, the number of guys affected is only increasing now that every adolescent has access to high speeds from day one. In the last year we have see a big jump in the percentage of rebooters who are teens (several with ED).

I'm going to piss a few guys off but there is no doubt Internet porn has psychological effects. How could it not? A kid starting Internet porn in 2012 is undergoing a form of brain training never experienced in history. Many counter with -  "how is this different than the introduction of TV, or radio?"

Clearly the rapid fire, constantly searching, seeking dopamine, cannot be duplicated by any other medium. But the key factor is that an adolescence's main function to rewire its brain to everything sexual, so he can successfully reproduce. Internet porn is what his brain is wiring to - long before actual relationships.

Sorry for the rant. Back to you. You went only 45 days. It may seem quite long, but its quite short compared to nearly everyone else with porn-induced sexual dysfunction. I get emails from guys who continue to experience improvements beyond one year. Sexual function, yes - but also positive changes in perception, mood, motivation, etc.

The bottom line for me is that we do not know how many guys using porn are "affected". Porn-induced ED is the LAST stage of excessive porn use. What other porn-related symptoms  have the developed? The only way to know is to quit for an extended period of time. Only a few are doing that.


« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:30:45 AM by Gary Wilson »

the_engine

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2012, 12:05:18 PM »
Well . . . AA is probably not a good example.  AA is a crock of shit. It is trumped up religious garbage.  Having said that . . .

If you look at the numbers for alcohol dependency, and the number of people who recover from it, you'll see some interesting facts. Around 35% of people with alcohol dependency recover from it.  Of that 35%, half of them abstain totally from drinking, and the other half continues to drink moderately.  If (and this is a big if) we can extrapolate from these numbers that porn addiction recovery rates are similar, maybe you can look at porn when you are "recovered."  My only question would be "Why?" 

If you and your spouse/girlfriend want to watch it together because it arouses you both, that's cool.  If your S/O is okay with it, and you're okay with it, there is no problem.  The problem arises when the porn is viewed in secret, or when it starts to take the place of a real person.

ETA: And as Gary said, the real problem is that rapid-fire hits of dopamine can really mess with your brain.  I would stay from it just on those grounds alone.


« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 12:07:23 PM by the_engine »

atl6245

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2012, 01:01:32 PM »
The thing is, Gary just made the point that internet porn addiction is different than other chemical addictions. So you really cannot extrapolate the numbers thinking porn addiction recovery/relapse rates are similar to alcholics.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be."  -John Wooden

Character is not placed in us from birth, it is forged into us with the hammer of failure and the heat of adversity. - ATL6245

the_engine

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
Which is why I said it was a "big if."

Gary Wilson

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 03:09:58 PM »
Quote
Well . . . AA is probably not a good example.  AA is a crock of shit. It is trumped up religious garbage.  Having said that . . .

My post was not meant to promote or to dismiss any organization. My post was not about AA, it was about addiction and sensitization.

My point was that his quote could be applied to anyone who is an addict waking up to the idea that they may not be able to return to their old habits - without consequences. In other words, their brain has changed in relation to the substance or activity in question - it has undergone sensitization.
see - http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/node/190#sensitization



nelly32

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Re: Relapse/Future Porn Use
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 02:43:20 AM »
Well . . . AA is probably not a good example.  AA is a crock of shit. It is trumped up religious garbage.  Having said that . . .

If you look at the numbers for alcohol dependency, and the number of people who recover from it, you'll see some interesting facts. Around 35% of people with alcohol dependency recover from it.  Of that 35%, half of them abstain totally from drinking, and the other half continues to drink moderately.  If (and this is a big if) we can extrapolate from these numbers that porn addiction recovery rates are similar, maybe you can look at porn when you are "recovered."  My only question would be "Why?" 

If you and your spouse/girlfriend want to watch it together because it arouses you both, that's cool.  If your S/O is okay with it, and you're okay with it, there is no problem.  The problem arises when the porn is viewed in secret, or when it starts to take the place of a real person.

ETA: And as Gary said, the real problem is that rapid-fire hits of dopamine can really mess with your brain.  I would stay from it just on those grounds alone.


I think the many thousands of people of have been helped by AA would disagree. Also, if people use a religious faith to help them get through an addcition, then so what??? It's their business.