Tearing Down the Walls, Part 2.

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Billy B., Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Talk about ups and downs, mate. I'm up and down like a bloody yo-yo this week. The ups and downs of a sustained clean-spell are of course preferable to the ups and downs associated with slips and/or relapses.... or even the ups and downs of being a committed addict, but still... deep bloody breaths. This morning I was all perky, ready to get back to work. Now, even after a good lunch, proper shower (with a cold finish) and a fresh nicotine patch on... me heads in the toilet, again. I'm almost completely de-energised and all I want to do is curl up in a ball and shut the whole world out. I actually reckon that giving myself permission to do that (given my current challenges) would not necessarily be letting myself down. And yet, I've spent way too much time in bed already this week. It's a lovely day. I'm going to take a few deep breaths, move slowly and gently, pack the car and head towards one of my busking spots - no pressure to put myself out there, but who knows? My mood could easily flip 180 between now and when I arrive and, even if I feel remotely capable, I will get up and give it a go. I need the money and I need to feel that sense of having stepped up, if at all possible.

    Depression is a bitch.

    Reboot-related depression is not much better but at least it's for a good cause.

    Not much of a response to your considered (and considerate) input, Nofap.


    I will respond with appropriate attention when I can shake off this.... shit.

    Thank you, thankyou.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Yup, but it's one bitch you can punch in the fucking face! :eek: Keep your dukes up and you'll beat this no probs, bro'.
    Billy B. likes this.
  3. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Cheers, Sav. All I can manage is to roll with it at the moment, just try to accept the uncomfortable feelings and remember that they are just feelings. Also, that they will pass. This, I guess, is partly what I've been trying to quash with my addiction(s) so... it's to be expected that things'll flair up for a while. I kinda look fwd to coming to some healthier coping strategies. I'll see my psyche next week: Goodgood.

    Day 59>Saddee

    Countin' the days, tryna make the days count and feeling committed to lettin' the process take it's course, see where it can lead.

    Any and all of this is better than staying addicted that rubbish.

    PMO is still not an option.

    PS I had to dig out my usb's to find one that needed returning to a friend this eve. I was nervous because I knew there was one (previously misplaced) with my most recent P-stash. Proud of me though, cause I steeled myself before hand and deleted the shit without even peeking. Emptied my recycling for good measure. Still, it's worth keeping in mind that my stash wasn't the problem so much as the dopamine rush I would get from chasing up new stuff. Just writing about this I can feel is some kind of triggering....

    Bloody Shit: PMO can Geeeeet Fucked!
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  4. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    Hey Billyb,

    I am just back from the coffeeshop and u popped in my head and I just want to give you a thumbs up.
    Whatever you are going through atm, just be with it not of it, open up to it, expand that big heart of yours, that big heart can take anything and just imagine that heart loving you, for whoever you are and for wherever you are at.

    And I will do the same for myself now as I need it too.
    Billy B. likes this.
  5. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Thanks, man. I'm not sure what to read into the above: hope it doesn't mean you're having a rough day? I know you'll be fine (yr a champion!) just: posi-vbes to ya, if so. And thanks again. I'm feeling much better, today.
  6. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Day 60> Sundee

    Feeling like I've come out of the most recent downspell. Committed to initiating and instilling some healthy self-care routines which will help me to ride out the next one when it hits. I'll post a more detailed update another time soon (and respond properly to Nofaps) when I can.

    Big ups to alla you fellas. Remember that, whether you're in middle of a long clean-streak, just startin' out or even comin' off the back of a slip/relapse, it's aaaaalll good: you're on the path to recovery and that is worth being proud of.

  7. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    The only thing to read into it is that I have so much self love to learn, I am only at the start of that journey! And of course I am a bit hazy today after the night out. ;)

    I am happy to hear you rode the wave and are setting yourself up for some more self care. :)
    Billy B. likes this.
  8. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Glad to hear it, Man. And cheers! Enjoy a lovely, self-lovin' arfty. :cool:
  9. Oneway

    Oneway Active Member

    Glad to hear you're feeling better Billy B . Establishing (and sticking to) healthy routines is such an important part of recovery. They really are something to hang on to when a bad wave hits.

    Congrats on 60 days! :)
    I'm trailing you five steps behind...planning to join you soon in the 60s'.
    Billy B. likes this.
  10. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Good onya, Oneway. Cheers. And a big pat on the back for you, Bro: you're doing great! :)
  11. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Day 61> Mundee.

    I've been reading in The Big Book (the basic text for Alcoholics Anonymous) and it has a lot to offer, I believe, any recovering addict.

    For example (I paraphrase): The idea that somehow, someday s/he will learn to control and enjoy the addiction is the great obsession of many an addict. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it to the gates of insanity or death.

    Sound familiar?

    Does to me.
  12. Nofapado

    Nofapado Active Member

    there is nothing enjoyable about an addiction
    Billy B. likes this.
  13. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Right. This is a challenging concept for me, Nofap. Although I do my best to respect all peoples and their various choices in regards to faith, although I can see a lot of comfort gained by many from religion/faith/spirituality and I acknowledge also that there are many, many examples of faith inspiring folks to good works and more and more. I have also had many bad experiences personally with religion, seen folks damaged and families and friendships torn apart (including my own) and let's not even start on the tendency of overzealous believers to feel they are somehow divinely justified in their violence and bigotry. In addition, I find a lot of modern 'spirituality' to be vapid and shallow, mindless, self-serving gobbledegook that also happens to be riddled with 'magical thinking', to boot (I find it very challenging to maintain a respectful countenance in in the face of this!).

    I'm not having a go at you, Nofap!

    I don't assume that's were you're coming from at all.... I'm just venting. :)

    I have the greatest respect for the scientific method where through rigorous experimentation and analysis, in a concerted effort to dis-prove a theory we have the greatest possibility to get an idea of how much water it actually holds, how much we can rely on it as a basis for further study. Good science doesn't reach conclusions (despite the appalling quality of science-reporting in broader media) but is constantly trying to challenge it's own outcomes.

    On the other hand, science hasn't been very good, so far, at describing, or measuring or analysing or explaining subjective experience which is a huge part of what it is to be human. Good philosophy (which I'm also a fan of) probably does a better job but often doesn't sit well with the idea of 'faith' because it appeals to us to constantly be challenging our own assumptions, acknowledging the almost total impossibility of a truly objective viewpoint, highlighting the suspect nature of our (inevitable) subjectivity.

    All this to say that I have, over the last 5-10 years been endeavouring to open my mind to the idea that there may be much to gained from... feeling a connection to... in developing a relationship with... something outside of myself. There are so many examples of folks having profoundly life-changing experiences through prayer, mediation, ritual, psychedelics or just out of the blue (often, but not always, after having been ground down to 'nothing' by the pressures of life). So many times people describe these experiences as seeming to be more 'real' than everyday reality, and that these experiences then inform their attitudes to life in ways that bring enormous peace (even in the midst of turmoil). I'm constantly trying to open my mind to these possibilities... certainly, I am open-minded: I will listen to almost anyone's story and respect the truth of their subjective experience (even as I know that our subjective experience is fraught with the potential for self-delusion).

    It's a dilemma!

    I'm reading about the 12 steps developed by the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous. One of the core principles is in acknowledging our own personal powerlessness (extremely challenging for me!) and in coming to believe that it is only a 'Power Greater than Ourselves' that has the ability to restore us. Whilst the book describes this entity/energy/concept as a Creator, God and a He (I'm pretty sure we can figure who they had in mind ;)), the modern adherents/practitioners of the 12 Steps assure me that one's chosen (or learned) concept of this 'Power Greater that Ourselves' seems not influence the efficacy of this aspect of the program (only ones experience of it). They say that nothing in the program need challenge or detract from ones previously held beliefs. I know a few hard-core atheists (as I'm sure there are Fundamentalists of many persuasions) who might politely disagree, but so far, it seems to me be one of the broader, most open-ended concepts of what God is (or what 'God' may be) offered by any system of thought. It's inclusive and I like that, so I'm reading on, whilst attempting to keeping an open mind.

    Thus, the journey continues!

    @ Nofap, you have my permission (if you so wish) to write of your own experience in this regard, right here on my journal-thread. I'd be most interested to hear how your relationship with your faith has helped you in this journey of recovery. I feel confidant that you can describe your personal experience without implying that it is the 'One True Path' o_O. And if not, if you find it's more personal than you wish to share, I of course respect that, also.

    I leave with a quote (lifted from The Big Book and) ascribed to a Herbert Spencer (whom Wikipedia tells me was an "English philosopher, biologist, anthropologist, sociologist, and prominent classical liberal political theorist of the Victorian era.")

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a [person] in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  14. Nofapado

    Nofapado Active Member

    Thanks Billy for the invitation but talking about faith on this forum will incite a riot.
    Billy B. likes this.
  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I like magical thinking. :) Most people on this forum have some form of depression. A heart that is glad can allow us to see things that a depressed, heavy, heart cannot. "A merry heart worketh like medicine." I have found this to be true in myself. I am absolutely not religious, but I have found slivers of magic and wonder filtering through into me ever since giving up P and M. There is an astrologer, Ron Brezny, who calls "God" the Great-Cosmic-Wow and I love that term. As you've alluded to, Billy, every answer leads to another question: how can we ever know anything? Shakespeare said it best, I think "...there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

    I used to love thinking, but I actively try not to think right now. My recovery has been to acknowledge I know nothing and that without the strength of others, and their philosophies, that I can not succeed. I don't want to be right about anything. Giving up P has shown me that all my cleverness never amounted to a healthy human being. Not only did I find that the bath water was cold and dirty, but that the baby wasn't that great, either. Inside, there is a spark of ignition (creation, or what have you). This, for me, is the only thing worth giving my attention to at present. What is my purpose? I have no idea. I do think, though, that we can get close to some kind of purpose when we engage our senses in the mundane. I was always a dreamer and I loved to imagine heavenly places. Being humbled by my fall into sexual affairs and porn has led me to find that heaven, for me, is in filling the hole in the wall, washing the windows, tidying the yard, etc. In a very real way I am serving myself as opposed to self-serving. I serve myself and then my service to others is real, instead of the "nice guy" serving I used to do.

    One thing is for certain: giving up P allows us to find our inner God, or awaiting giant. Anything less than our best effort is giving in to what ever devil one might believe in. Yes, this is reductive, but reducing it down to the lowest common denominator sweeps away our intellectual waffling and replaces it with the kind of resolve that might just allow us to take...a leap of faith.
  16. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Hahahahaha! :D!!

    You know what?

    I totally respect your position, Nofap.

    Not least of which because I suspect you may have a more advantageous perspective on the issue, than do I!

    Just, on the general topic, though.

    I do hope not to have offended deeply any folks who leans toward the New Age or Spiritual (for want of amore perhaps, accurate, or inclusive 'grouping'). Please accept my sincere apologies, if so. I can be a cheeky (but mostly an affectionate) stirrer of a particular variety of (usually modern western) beliefs (cherry picking from ancient, eastern or mid-20th century Aquarian ones) that include what Einstein may have referred to as 'Spooky Action at a Distance'. While Einstein was arguing against inconsistencies in quantum mechanics when he (I think), coined that phrase, I'm generally alluding to phenomena such as Psychics, Aura-readings, Channelling, and Reiki (to give you an indicative, if arbitrary, selection). I use Einstein’s terminology because (I like the sound of it! And because) I sometimes wonder if these things aren’t mutually exclusive (quantum physics and the seemingly super-, or supra- natural). These people (the loosely termed New Age Spiritual-types) have to put up with my vaguely inappropriate irreverence from time to time but (and the irony is) many of them are my friends! I probably connect deeply with as many New Age (bloody) Spiritual types (on other levels) as I do Atheists and/or Agonistics. And it'd have to be roughly an even split with the odd Buddhist or Christian thrown in for a bit of spice. Geez, I’ve experimented with much of this stuff myself and have even had what I could pretty safely describe as transcendental (as well as other kooky) experiences (without the help of psychedelics, should ye be making nefarious assumptions, you!). It's just that I'm most likely to attribute these experiences to psychology or psychopharmacology (or quantum-level synaptic firings!) rather than 'Spirit'. I occasionally find it amusing, at other times concerning, but most often simply fascinating that so many people I know, love and respect, choose a paranormal or supernatural explanation as their go-to (if not, their 'given'), instead. Neither do I have a major problem with almost anyone's belief system: I am as interested in (and ultimately respectful of) Islamic theology (for example) as much as I am in the history of the Jewish Diaspora, or the Animism and other perspectives that many local cultures retained even as they adopted Buddhism in its spread from northern India. For those involved in wishing to understand the world (and get along comfortably with the people in it), I think these topics (and a plethora of others) are extremely relevant.

    IMHO. :rolleyes:

    But I digress: apologies once again to any of you who may have been offended by my rant on New Age stuff, previous. I feel so comfortable being myself here, I forget that, while I'm more or less amongst friends, I'm not necessarily amongst folks who have had a chance to get to know the entirely innocent and good natured intentions behind my ribbing. And while I will debate someone on whether it's possible, for example (by visualizing strongly enough), to manifest say, a Ferrari, I'm as equally fascinated by the seeming power of our thoughts (of our intentions), to influence not only (profoundly) our subjective experience but (perhaps as a consequence) genuine real-world outcomes.

    In any case, here is not the space for that debate, either, I suspect.

    In my defence, I think I might be on some sort of spectrum that (despite my innate emotional intelligence and reasonably well developed communication skills) means I do (often!) misjudge the appropriateness of my behaviour and/or speech in a variety of situations and settings... and that can be awkward.

    I’m getting better (and this is my final apology)! :oops:

    The only reason any of this is even relevant (and I maintain that it is), is this: the curious connection between the fact that many folks here have mentioned spirituality being a key driver in the recovery process (Nofap ;)) and that one of the (arguably) most successful programs for addiction recovery (at least, in the West and namely, the 12Steps) cites this idea of a ‘Power Greater than Ourselves’ explicitly as crucial to that program’s success.

    Are none of you curious about this?

    I also wonder: if anyone would like to share... would they actually be willing to?

    All respect to you and your decision, if not, but in that case perhaps the question should be: Does anyone think it's possible (even if you yourself prefer not to share for other reasons)... does anyone think its possible to discuss this topic without getting caught up in a heated debate regarding the nature of existence (or the various merits of any particular religious perspective)? And if not, why not?

    I would like to think we are mature and respectful enough to do so… but maybe I’m just weird! o_O

    Peace out, Cobbers.

    Here’s to hopin’ your respective weekends have been: Days that Count.

    Onwards and upwards! Killer.. :cool:
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  17. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Gaaaawd, Blessya, Saville. This is a fantastic example of the kind of response I've been fishing for (I was typing my previous post as you were layin' down your own). You've answered with the truth of your experience which I (would always respect but in this case happen to) strongly relate to (also), even as I continue to personally value (deeply) the joys of intellectual inquiry.

    So: bonus!

    One of my most spiritually-minded (read: intuition-fuelled) friends has the kind of irreverent attitude that I can relate to most: one that is part Wisdom, part (healthy) Scepticism and (perhaps most importantly to me) part Levity. You and she both are fans of Ron Brezny: and what a wacky guy he is!

    Thanks for reminding me of him. He is one wise cookie. :)

    You made me smile (and giggle) whilst offering deliciously nutritious food for thought in the least didactic of terms: that's an extraordinarily valuable talent you have, my friend!

    PS You're kind of magical thinking is both beautiful and not the kind that I find so... challenging (see in the above post under: Ferrari :rolleyes:).
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  18. MarstonS

    MarstonS Walking the longest walk...

    I'm impressed how you just stack up days on top of each other, never relapsing, and just keep going. It's awesome!!
    Billy B. likes this.
  19. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Yeeeeeah. Thanks-a-you!

    It's true!

    And yet, it's also a certain sorry fact that I've been around and around and around that block, off and on the horse, over and bloody over and...

    I'm sooooo over it.o_O

    Y'gotta laugh, unless y'd cry sometimes...

    just thinkin' of it!

    At least I'm not having an existential meltdown.

    Ha ha!

    It's aaaaaall good. :)

    Just watching. See what happens. :cool:

    I'm kinda having a... an interesting night.

    Excited about potential.

    I'll tell you about it....

  20. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    Silly Season is upon us, keep your wits about'yas.

    Remember to Breathe. ;)

    Catchyas on the Flip-side.

    Peace. Xx

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