Anyone else feel like a loser...?

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by MarstonS, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. freeman35

    freeman35 Member

    I was interested by the possibility that on some level we deliberately created the addiction, I usually consider that even though we have to take personal responsibility in order to recover, nonetheless we have not consciously chosen to become an addict. But I am in two minds about this question.
     
  2. spoofy

    spoofy Active Member

    Ye mate definitely, though I'm trying to understand the distinction about Dopamine and Serotonin.

    "Serotonin flows when you feel significant or important. Loneliness and depression appears when serotonin is absent" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thai-nguyen/hacking-into-your-happy-c_b_6007660.html)

    I think Dopamine more about the reward mechanism, though is obviously involved in everything we do.

    Loving this man, very deep.
     
  3. freeman35

    freeman35 Member

    Good link thanks. I thought dopamine was the short term happy chemical and serotonin was mroe the longer term 'contentment' one but I might be wrong.
     
  4. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    I was reading about dopamine a while back. It was said that dopamine can also be described as an anticipation chemical. Or a seeking chemical ; one that prompts us to seek out pleasure

    This was from an interesting article:

    http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/a/a_03/a_03_m/a_03_m_que/a_03_m_que.html
    THE ROLE OF DOPAMINE

    Many hypotheses have been offered to try to identify the relationship between dopamine and pleasure. The first and simplest posited a direct causal connection between dopamine and the sensation of pleasure. In other words, it was thought that the increased dopamine level that accompanied a gratifying behaviour was the direct cause of its hedonic impact

    But doubts were cast on this theory by other experiments, in particular those showing that the increase in dopaminergic activity preceded the gratifying behaviour itself. A new hypothesis then arose, that dopamine acted as a facilitating factor in learning. According to this hypothesis, the amount of dopamine released by the brain prior to a behaviour is proportional to its potential for providing pleasure. Depending on whether the behaviour proves to be pleasant or unpleasant, the anticipatory dopamine level would be higher or lower the next time.

    According to this same hypothesis, learning would enable this dopaminergic response to be transferred from an unconditioned stimulus (such as an open can of tuna, for your cat) to a conditioned one (the noise of the can opener). This hypothesis accords dopamine a central role in the way we learn to remember sources of gratification.

    Still other studies, however, have raised questions about this role of dopamine as a modulator of learning. In particular, certain rat experiments showed that even if the animals kept pressing the lever by which they stimulated their own brains, the actual level of dopamine in their brains kept decreasing.

    From these studies, a new hypothesis emerged that associated dopamine more with novelty and its ability to increase the animals’ motivation to approach the gratifying object. This “incentive value” would be a distinct component of what we commonly call “pleasure seeking.” In other words, the dopaminergic system would be necessary for wanting the gratifying object, but not for liking it or for learning to remember new sources of pleasure.

    Sorry MarstonS for the long response on your thread
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  5. freeman35

    freeman35 Member

    Thanks for the info Boxer.

    On the same theme of feeling like a 'loser', I am coming to the same conclusion - that that lack of serotonin make you feel like a loser.

    We release it when we feel important, and I've learned here that often people talk too much in conversations because of the serotonin from being heard or listened to even if your conversation partner might be getting bored....We can assume that people who dominate conversations too much prob have low serotonin levels and that is how they have come to be able to produce it...? I certainly know someone who is like that.

    I am not someone who talks over other people very much but I have had the prob of low serotonin. I have been obviously getting my fix from porn use. But I now know it hasn't just been from porn. I have something else I do which is perhaps as hard to admit to as the porn: I run fantasies in my head - situations in which I am a hero, or otherwise the victor in a certain situation. I think everyone prob does this to some level, but in addition to the porn I think I indulge in this type of dayream a lot - too much to be exact. I think this is also to do with serotonin, presumably when I am in this fantasy land, I am releasing it. I think I have a very vivid imagination - not sure how it woudl compare to others but I can literally be subsumed by it for 30 mins at a time.

    I think that we need to be able to produce serotonin from interacting with our immediate physical environment, and those people who have lost this ability and/or never had it are the ones who are going to experience addictions, as well as perhaps also have an overactive imagination which divorces them too much from reality and therefore reduces their ability to have a fulfilling life.

    You need to be inspired and driven to interact with the real world (we all know this) but perhaps it is those with naturally occurring serotonin who end up successful in this world and are less prone to addictions. I can therefore understand why SSRI drugs have been used, the problem is the side effects and dependency.

    Finding organic and natural ways to get the brain producing serotonin. Thats the key.

    Sorry if I've repeated points made by others here, just working through this in my own mind
     
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  6. freeman35

    freeman35 Member

    Also, the narcissist / co-dependent dynamic is prob the result of low serotonin in both parties, just manifested in polar opposite personalities.
     
  7. spoofy

    spoofy Active Member

    100% agree, solid observation.

    Funny you say this, lately as my porn use declines again, I've been watching myself do it too.

    Well said, we should educate ourselves in the many ways to boost serotonin to regular level.
     
  8. spoofy

    spoofy Active Member

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  9. carlos24

    carlos24 New Member

    This is very interesting.Im 35 with ED no morning wood,no spontaneus erections.I had years of heaavy porn adictiona nd masturbation up to 4 times a day.And years and years without skipping a day.Even though my penis only responds to touch still feel the libido or atraction to women. I think my body is just drained of fuel to help that mental stimuli with a phisical response.But I guess the survival of our human condition even at this state prevents me form ignoring women all together and that "calling" is still there.
    In my years of heavy porn and masturbation addiction I could clearly feel the Withdrawl you guys talk about. The feeling of disconfort unwholeness adn even nervous shake that I HAD to neutralize with an ejaculation so I could be relaxe and feeling cool. years later that withdrawl was not as strong and I kept masturbating but much less frecuently it went down to once or twice a day morning and night.And even sometimes if I had a busy day I would skip a day without it. Thats when I first realized something was changing.
    At that point my need for porn adn masturbation was not of a phisical addiction anymore but habit i adquire throu the years. Being home alone meant automaticly look for porn.But it was something I was doing in a robotic way not really cravin it.
    Righ now in my mid 30s with my testosterone clearly going down I can tell from fat storage muscle tone etc..I dont feel that anticipation anymore or excitement to consume porn.That Domapine rush...And I dont feel that disconfort or nervous thing.For some reason I only feel pleasure actually doing it and the orgasm. But most times I have to force myself to do it. its like my body does not ask me to do it at all.Im cool and relaxed without it.But my mind asks me to do it ina concious way.I can hear my mind saying" c'mon do it it will feel good like last time" and I force myself to achieve and erection and orgasm.and yes it feels good when I do.But the anticipation is gone and the cravings too. Im home alone its 3pm. I woke up early and I havent done anything yet.I just dont need it,dont feel like it.Im relaxed.These days i do it most times out of boredness. I think Ive messed up my nerves. Sometimes I dont masturbate for a few days and I cna see an EQ improvement,but then I go back to masturbbate too much and IM back to ED.
    Its very interesting the thing you said about dopamine and giving advice filling your ego. The same cna be applied to the LIKES on your pictures or your comments on social media. People is falling very deep into adiction and dont even realize it. Their life would be miserable without somebody liking their picture.They cant go back to be a nobody without fans.Every girl in the world under 40 is heavily addicted to those likes and compliments.And it happens on regular conversations too,you see people not listening to each other,speaking louder than the other and trying so hard to make their point valid as the truth.The goal is: I was right,Im smart,Im smarter than you,Ihave knowledge...and that feeling of greatness makes them happy for a few seconds. Its so cool you have opened thisangle cause I had noticed the social media thing dopamine rush with pictures but not the dopamine rush in people trying to make their point. You are smart dude!!!!( you surely got a msile on ur face now caused by a dopamine or serotonin rush) just kidding..honestly its been very eye-opening. It reinforces my believe that HUmbleness is everything,the best quality any human being can have. And yes being a perfecionist leads to unhappyness.
    Theres a lot of brilliant people that are never satisfied and look for aproval and praise all the time. i try to fight all those things everyday,ego filling behaviors but I cant deny that I like to be loved and admired and for people to think Im great.Im no a psycologist but Ive read about the narcisistic syndrome and I think Im one of them,perfectionist successful ambitous and probably what is behind my behavior is my father not giving 2 cents about me and my mother always telling me Idont do anything right...All these feel good getaways,porn drugs,promiscuity,bigorexia plastic surgery adiction,alcohol come from a place ofnot feeling loved or apreciated that leads to self steem issues.I cant change my past but it helps dealing with the present to rationalize your addictions,know where they come from
     
  10. carlos24

    carlos24 New Member

    Oh and about the OP...yes I feel like a loser when I relapse cause its a slap on your face to your ego,its a failure and I believe any drug addict going to rehab and relapsing feels that way. but addiction is a PITA the only thing you can do is keep trying.If you get too hooke don the Im a loser Ill never give up this then you ar eon your way tolet go of yourself completly. As long as you got that hope an dkeep trying you will take steps towards partial or total recovery.I usually relapse after a week or 10 days,but I try to focus on the positive things I see like better skin or better EQ,and that is my motivation for the next try
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Well-Known Member

    Again, referring to the OP, I have to humbly admit that it is what goes through my mind as I 'fess-up'. Scratch that, I believe that's what most people here go through - @spoofy being a notable exception ;) - and rather than take the walk-of-shame, some don't even bother reporting back, further worsening the loneliness, the cravings. I've been there!

    'Loser' is, btw, a tag you chose to slap onto yourself. It's judgmental - towards yourself.

    Anyway, the ego is almost guaranteed to take a hit and self-esteem will plummet, but only as a function of how YOU see it. Like @titan_transcendence mentioned in an earlier post, it really depends on context and personality.

    But what if it didn't matter whether the ego took a hit, because ego or not, it will never provide the hapiness we think it can grant us? What if you could stand tall, side by side, with a hero, regardless of the fact you just relapsed 15 minutes ago? And look him/her in the eye? What if I could open up and talk to a woman and ask her out on a date, even if I had 2 hours of sleep from a late night porn binge?

    What if?
     
  12. freeman35

    freeman35 Member

    Mendoza you are right, 'loser' is a label you apply to yourself. I also agree that we are probably being too hard on ourselves to use this term. If you break down the word, it actually begins to lose it's meaning. Is it therefore worth asking the question: "What is a 'loser'?"

    I've found two definitions for the word: Here's the first: "a person or thing that loses or has lost something, especially a game or contest"

    I don't feel like a loser in this sense as I am not in a game or contest, my recovery is a path, not a contest

    Here's the second definition: "a person who is disadvantaged by a particular situation or course of action."

    As a PMO addict of many years I do fit this definition very well, although I would prefer to use that word 'disadvantaged'. I am disadvantaged by the amount of PMO I have done in my adult life. But even now I sense that the disadvantage doesn't have to be permanent.

    I feel as though my true identity is the person I become when I am not doing PMO and therefore I see myself as innately a winner who has had some disadvantages in life and is overcoming them (more slowly than he would like I have to admit)

    I am now 39 years old and the amazing thing is that, far from what I expected to happen which was that women would cease to be interested in me, they seem to be more interested now than they were 5 years ago. This is partly because I am slimmer and fitter now than I was then. I happen to have a type of build that quickly gets spoiled with weight gain. If I gain even a few pounds my face goes from being decent looking to being like that 'forever alone' rage comic face. I rarely drink beer for this reason. Also, I recently saw an interview with a 'dating coach' - a type of person who I would often be skeptical about, but he said something very interesting: "A man can be more attractive to women at 45 than he was at 25". I would't have believed him except that I have found this to be true in my experience of the last few years.
     
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  13. carlos24

    carlos24 New Member

    I have recently learned something from women that I kind of sense earlier but I've had the chance to read in women forums. First there are a few things that with very little research you can discover that make girls feel atracted.
    One is height,if you are not tall..wear boots.If you are tall,wear boots and you will have twice as much success.

    Second of every muscle you work in the gym the one that will definately help you get their attention is shoulders.Always keep in mind a woman wont get to see your belly until youare already in a private setting and if you are already in that scenario she is not going to turn you down because you dont have a 6pack.As long ad its not a huge belly that makes you look unhealthy..you should focus on your shoulders.They will make you look taler than you actually are and stronger than you are.Unconciously they need protection ina man.

    Third.A long face gets more girls than a round one.if you already got a long face,cut your hair on the sides and grow hair on top.also grow a goatee.When I grow a goatee I got girls cheking me non stop it feels unconfortable. It gives you that bad agressive look that they percieve as strong macho man. if you have round face the result of these changes will be even more dramatic. A round and completely shaved face is a no no for any woman.

    Fourth.This really should be the first. Woman only like men who are confident.Luckily they are not smart in knowing if you truly are. All you have to do is act as if you are confident.Pretend that you are not impressed with their beauty,pretend that you dont care much if they like you or not. Say whatever its on your mind wether they like it or not..Throw jokes at them without fear of them being ofended,throw bad words here and there.

    5th. This I just learned.Women dont want to walk side by side with a man that is too much taller than them,has clearer skin,better sense of fashion or bodyshape,clean cut hair and or eyebrows. They also dont want to walk next to a man that ages better than them with less wrinkles or body fat. Most women are insecure about their look.So yes they like atractive men but not too much that he outshines them. Thats the only reason why they critizice metrosexuals and gym guys.They usually say we are gay.They feel threatened. As the old saying says too much of anything is bad. if you take too much care of your looks women wont even try to flirt with you cause of fear of rejection.They also dont want to be your firlfriend and everybody reminding her how lucky she is to have you...
    So they dont like a beautiful or pretty man,they want to own that place at all cost cause beauty is their weapon to seduce control keep a man. if you look better than them you are in a power position that they dont enjoy at all.
    So if your goal is get girls dont comb your hair too tight looking,dont shave too close,dont go for a Hercules body. They prefer the regular cute guy not fat but not mens health type that is not threatening to their power.

    6th Money. this is really first position but unfortunately its very dificult to make a woman think you got money if you dont or make her think your are wealthier than you actually are,some guys are smart at it but women easily get a picture of your income.its much easier get girls working on the previous 5.
    Im 35 and all this is based on experiece and research.Im not advising anybody to fool women.I dont do all this cause at this time in my life with ED my goal is not having women thrown at me and i some way its not too ethical.i prefer just be myself weather they like it or notBUt if anybody here wants to catch thir attention heres my 2 cents
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017

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