An Honest Look At Societal Priorities

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by Mik2, May 14, 2017.

  1. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    Think of the most degrading, disgusting, dangerous, dehumanizing occupation a woman can engage in, got it?
    Now think of the most degrading, disgusting, dangerous, dehumanizing occupation a man can engage in.
    List what you've come up with and we can start an honest discussion.
     
  2. lookingahead

    lookingahead To restore my inmost being.

    Interesting question. I think the answer would be either pornography or prostitution.
     
  3. hope2overcome

    hope2overcome No Love, No Sex

    Trafficking for both genders.
     
  4. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Medical experimentation on the body, both sexes. It might not be considered an 'occupation', though. It's something people get paid for, and it 'occupies' them, so why not?
     
  5. spoofy

    spoofy Member

    Both sexes, anything to do with cleaning other people/animal shit
    in nightclub it gets crazier, with people's puke, etc ...
    and don't get me started on hospitals, it's an ungrateful job.

    lolz at anyone who immediately thinks pornography/sex, obvious trap is obvious.
    (and trafficing is not an occupation, it's slavery)
     
  6. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    How about being a butcher? Killing living beings day after day. I wonder how anyone can stomach doing it and how many women are in that occupation.
     
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  7. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    Alright then. Either we have a level headed group of people here, or the moralists are in hiding.
    I am generally in agreement with most of you, I don't think there is much that is overly degrading or shameful about sex work, or at least it doesn't need to be.

    Hell, I'd be doing it myself if there was a chance I'd make any money at, that and if I was even remotely attracted to overweight women.
    Hmm, working as part of the "cleanup" crew at a nursing home, or eating out a morbidly obese woman, I'm not sure the yuck factor is all that different to be honest.
    Though I guess I could just not offer particular services.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  8. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    Honestly I have mixed feelings about that gig. On the one hand id be murdering animals non stop and I'm still on the fence about whether it's even morally okay to kill animals when there are readily available alternatives.

    On the other hand, most factory farm animals only live until they reach maturity or not even that, and spend most of/all of that time in a space barely larger than themselves. So perhaps one could look at it as putting an end to their obvious suffering.
     
  9. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    Prostitute.

    To actually have to have sex with some dirty, smelly, greasy weirdo must count among the most soul-destroying activities out there. (I've read interviews with prostitutes who've said the trick is to focus on the last offensive part of the client's body, like his ears.)

    I know porn stars sometimes get busted for prostitution - having sex for money and all that. . .
     
  10. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    I think prostitution is worse than most occupations. And while it's technically open to all genders (and sexualities), the reality is it's mostly male buyers and female sellers.

    That fact of inequality should be noted, but doesn't strike me as a compelling point against it.

    Here's what I see as a key distinction, quoting from a feminist prostitution-abolitionist advocacy piece:

    Source: http://www.feministcurrent.com/2013/06/24/arguing-against-the-industry-of-prostitution-beyond-the-abolitionist-versus-sex-worker-binary/

    I don't agree with the implication that being punched in the face isn't a violation of bodily boundaries. Why wouldn't it be? Being a human punchbag, if that was an occupation, would be worse than being a prostitute. Probably. If we didn't factor in violence against prostitutes... which we should.

    The particular degrading aspect of prostitution is, as I see it, most clearly seen when you distinguish between hard jobs where you use your body to do stuff, and jobs where your body is used, sexually.

    Is this distinction really so important? Does it need to mention 'sexually'? If we remove that, it seem to lose some of its power. (ETA: then medical experimentation, as I mentioned above, gets to sit on the same level as prostitution.)

    (I don't think there's any getting away from the notion that sexuality is, for humans, something deserving of special treatment. Something sacred. Which is hard to reconcile with a modern, non-superstitious worldview... but a coherent common-sense sense of ethics seems to demand it!)
     
  11. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    I just had to go and jinx it :p
     
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  12. spoofy

    spoofy Member

    Ye dude, had a couple mates who worked as butchers, definitely sounded like one of the worsts jobs.
    Not only physically demanding, but also poor pay and disgusting.
     
  13. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    I don't think sex work has to be a bad experience. Some of you have mentioned that it would be awful to "have to have sex with people you aren't attracted to", but the reality is sex work should involve full control over your body and services offered, otherwise it's rape. Then there is the point made that your body is being used, rather than using your body. I don't think this is always the case, and again it suggests a lack of any autonomy of the sex worker.

    I think it is possible to enjoy a career in sex work, provided you are actually able to enforce your boundaries and maintain some level of control. Some people genuinely enjoy providing sexual satisfaction to other people, they see it as a helpful and important service. I think like any other profession in this horribly lopsided economy, there are far too many people in desperate situations, and there would be far fewer people in sex work if this weren't the case.

    I've been gradually changing my mind on a lot of things lately, and I now believe that sexuality combined with real love will always be above and beyond the mere experience of sexual release. I have had the experience in the past of falling in love with 2 sex workers, regardless of the fact that it is an illusion. The illusion only lasts a short time though before I realize that they don't "love" me back. They are genuinely good people, and they care about my well being as a fellow human, but at the end of the day true intimacy just cannot be found in a cold, sterile, paid transaction.
     
  14. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    I'm trying not to be prudish, but sex work has got to mess your mind up, and damage your love life.

    I've spoken to a couple of 'high class' girls who said it's a job with good money and complete freedom, and good for them - I try not to judge - but I've observed girls I've guessed to be working the streets and that looks brutal to me.

    I possibly have intimacy issues, tho!

    OK - next guess: White House spokesperson?
     
  15. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    You're not wrong, sex work is likely to be an awful experience for many people. Not everyone can fathom offering sexual intimacy as a service, just like not everyone can fathom being a nurse caring for patients.

    I'm being completely honest here, and it's something that is new to me so bear with me. I really do believe that there are some individuals on this planet that are overflowing with empathy and compassion, to the point where they can almost instantly connect with anyone. They are rare individuals but I have met at least one throughout the 15-20 women I have met in the sex trade.

    These are the people who can see right through the bad aspects of any individual and find something good in them. These are the nurses/doctors that care about patients, even when those patients hurt them intentionally or unintentionally. They are also the sex workers that genuinely enjoy helping someone to feel less alone, to have some form of intimacy and connection in their lives no matter how fake it may seem on the surface.

    These people are incredibly rare. For every 1 sex worker I have met that holds this incredible compassion, there are upwards of 19 others who just don't have it in them. Potentially 19 other people who are damaged by sex without intimacy, who are unable to connect with a complete stranger. Many of them dull their emotions over time, taking on a cold demeanor to protect themselves. The same is true of medical professionals.

    There is a lot of harm/abuse in the sex industry, and a lot of desperation. I don't think that sex work is the wrong choice for everyone but there are issues that we have no solutions for. As long as the corrupt economic system is in place people will always be desperate for money, and we have no way of preventing abuse of sex workers behind closed doors.

    I think the bad probably outweighs the good right now, but it is evident that some sex workers are doing what they want to do and are fighting for their right to do it. We can't just ignore them as a society, but people should be protected.
     
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  16. Wabi-sabi

    Wabi-sabi Imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

    I think you nailed it. Thinking about it, the sex worker I spoke to was talking about providing services to clients with physical disabilities.

    She talked about working with guys with spinal cord injuries - who couldn't gain erections but still wanted intimacy, and the fulfillment of pleasuring a woman.
     
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  17. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    The problem is really more ingrained in society itself. We need to solve the problems of wealth inequality. We can do this by limiting the difference in income between employees, ceo's and investors within corporations. Limiting corporate profits isn't the answer, nor is raising the minimum wage (people will get fired, and inflation will increase), nor is stealing wealth via taxation. Fat cats should never be so rich in the first place.

    Then we need to deal with the problems of violence that makes it difficult for anyone to do their job in a private setting, not just sex workers. Deal with the pimps and the violent clients. I imagine the number of women in the sex trade would probably drop to 10%, but at least they'd be doing what they want to be doing.
     
  18. spoofy

    spoofy Member

    Of course sex work is not rainbows & sunshine, but the OP clearly states
    Anyone listing sex work here, need to seriously take a long hard look on their lives.
    If we ignore the rock bottom, how can we ever appreciate our fortune?

    Imo that's where our 1st world problems addiction start, we encounter minor obstacles, we exaggerate them and escape into addictions in our safe bubbles.

    The butcher example was a great starter, I remember my mate told me a few times their "humane" stunning tools didn't work, and the cattle was shaking violently in pain. So (against regulations) he killed them to put them out of their misery. (his description involved loud cattle moaning sounds, bones cracking and other gory details)
     
  19. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I do not want to be part of the war between the sexes, but still think that our western society generally put much more focus of women's issues. This includes voicing concern about the sex-workers conditions (which are for the huge majority women). This is good thing, for sure, but for us men, on the other hand are not shown so much interest. Butchers are likely to be men, and I really think they are doing totally dehumanizing job - yet have never seen any concern shown for them. Same goes to other occupations too where men face huge risks, but rarely these are taken to any serious consideration. I would like to see a real equality in these matters.
     
  20. spoofy

    spoofy Member

    I don't think it's gender inequality per-se, lotsa women have crappy jobs, from sanitary nurses who clean old men shit all day, to mindless factory workers.

    The fascination with outlawing escorts, has been on governments agendas for thousands of years.
    If anything, I put my money on the need to maintain the "nuclear family" illusion, and old wives' fear of losing their meal ticket.
     

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