A Pilgrim's Progress

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Squire, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Squire

    Squire Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018 at 10:35 PM
  2. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Hey, Squire. Sounds like you've got the ball rolling in an affirmative way. You're posting on the journals of others and that is critical to recovery. As we give, we receive, is absolutely true here. Welcome to the board.
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  3. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Life IS good. :)
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  4. rami

    rami New Member

    hi squire
    I read your posts and I like the way you think and write
    have your tried do an exhausting sport 2-3 times a week
    I found it very helpful with anxiouty reduction and it really raise the mood
    good bless and guide you
    but I am not really sure that life is good
    Squire likes this.
  5. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    Heya Ive got some experience with this process (around 8 months worth) and I think i can give you some advice (if you came up with this method yourself im very impressed, its basically "Shadow work" you can google that and will find hits about it)
    The biggest problem is we tend to as strongly as possible avoid old stuff, even if we try actively sit with it. So thats the metric ill analyse the steps by. Step 3 and 5 are in this aspect very problematic because if I used those id be guaranteed to apply it too fast to slide back into denial even after just getting the first whiff of bad emotions. 4 has the risk too but its less likely. You can still use step 3 to 5, but be aware of this dynamic and therefore I recommend to use it after you conclude a session for a set time (20 min is a great timeframe but everything above 5 works)
    You can check it off put the problem is every one of the things that needs healing has multiple layers to it, so youll revisit everything at least like 15 times or something. That said in conventional shadowwork theres also a checkoff ritual but its not expected to actually finish the problem, just a pat on the back. If you keep all these in mind you can use this process 1:1 and get good results. Really dive into step 2 though, that should be the main part by far (more than 80'%)
    Also sometimes I recommend starting the process with "Give me some old trauma" and your emotional mind will start releasing even though you forgot to which event it belongs, this is a second mountain to thaw because we forget a lot and then theres childhood stuff from age 0 to 8 too which never has memory.

    Things I wish I knew when I started the work:

    -The worse it makes you feel the more progress you make that day (and the fruits come much later) Possible side effects that are extremely common: nausea, irritability, restlesness or insomnia, increased social anxiety for a while, emotional outbursts, less common is stuff like vomiting but its not out of the question.
    -Theres more to do than I thought (thought Id discontinue after 1 month, now its looking like 3 years)
    -You dont need to heal even 30% to quit addiction, you need just enough to increase your range of emotions, so that they are much higher even post relapse, then your brain has no reason to numb because not even P numbs it, then the brain gives up.
    (it took me 2 months to be able to surrender P, mileage may vary)

    Because this process is so hard it takes a lot to stick to it for a long time (especially because during the beginning not only will there be no benefits, but actually you will feel worse off)
    I got a good motivational video that shows how important shadowwork is

    Good luck on your journey and good job on figuring this out.
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  6. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    What tells you if youre done with an issue is your attitude towards it coming back. If you yearn for it to reappear, then you are healed (because the memories and the emotions are transformed into pride) if youre anything but yearning for it, its still a problem from some perspective (some issues need to be tackled from the sad emotion perspective, angry, hopeless, anxious, grief and mixes of them)

    The mind is really scared of releasing because its naturally extremely good at suppression as long as its not questioned so it has a lot of a "why bother releasing this i got this" undertone. And also a "why are you making me sick" undertone when I realised I had material worth several flus symptoms stuck there.

    I am extremely confident that this process can cure P addiction in anyone after some time, not because its weird magic but because you reap what you put in and its by far the hardest way haha. So try to stick with it and youll get there
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  7. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    It does not really matter in the end, no. The main problem is how much impact the thing had in that moment and how numb you were in that moment. Whenever something happens there is immediate emotional pain and residual emotional pain that gets stored in the body (trauma mostly in the lower upper body thats why nausea is like number 1 in the symptom)
    When its something you did there might be more guilt to deal with and if its something out of control its more anger/hopeless territory. But they both fall into the "i remember the event attached to the emotions" category, as opposed to the dont remember which is the category that differs in the main approach a bit.

    Regarding the how I feel about P, well, when I think about it I actually feel physically ill so even typing in this forum I have to imagine P as an acronym for something else (i do that subconsciously even I didnt realise until now) not P ing is for me as easy as not jumping off a cliff, because i dont need it for numbing anymore its become worthless for me. How long I abstained had little to do with that, ive felt that way since day 15 of this streak and predicted to myself id hit 90 based on the scale in my signature.(the fact that it happened like this changed my view on addiction big time) Before I started to release emotionally id hit day 65 and think about P every free second. I whiteknuckled for 3.5 years but i dont know how that factors into things
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  8. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    No this 4 hours is just doing nothing, not working through emotions. 4 hours is impossible to do your focus breaks after 30 at most sometimes i cant go past 20. DoF is just related to how ok you are being by yourself with no distractions. Im really bad on dof too its not needed to quit P but its a nice indicator of progress in general wellbeing. The place you put yourself at in regards to P addiction is a bit better than where i was when i first started out so I think you could do around 80 days with willpowering
    Squire likes this.
  9. madman

    madman Member

    Squire, I appreciate you. I identify with you in so many ways. I too am a follower of Jesus, however I act out so much, I beat myself up all the time for my many failures. I admire that after all you've been through, you still follow of Jesus.

    I do too. I have considered walking away from Christian faith, but don't think I really would. The mental conception of what I think a Christian should be is so far from how I actually live my life, thanks to PMO.

    My parents both passed away in the last couple of years, and I am not happy with my life. A lot of bad things happened to me growing up, so I struggle to believe in love, faith, etc. All that. Like so many others.

    Your insight into yourself is incredible. I acted out, even today, before I got onto this forum. I'm glad I did.

    Your post helped me. I have had sexual sobriety periods of over 100 days multiple times, but at that point the urge to reward myself with some PMO is too much and I go for it, losing the long period I had going.

    This has happened so many times I give up. Lately I act out so much all the time, because what's the use? I can't beat this thing anyway. Why try?

    Your post helps me see that there are underlying issues. I have always thought that, but I haven't been able to see what they are.

    Your post has helped me somewhat. I don't understand myself as well as you do, or why I do the things I do.

    Thank you for sharing your spiritual journey and insights. You blessed me.
    Boxer17 and Squire like this.
  10. A New Man

    A New Man White Knuckle Brigade 2013

    Hey Squire-

    Pema Chodron talks about shame in one of her talks. The stuff about shame starts at 6:28:

    In another talk (I can't remember which one, and couldn't find it unfortunately) she talks about how shame is emphasized in Western culture compared to Eastern cultures (or at least Tibetan which is the one she is most familiar with). In that same talk she says incidents that cause shame can welcomed or even viewed with joy, because they are the "stuff" of awakening. If we can experience the emotional charge of shame in our body without elaborating on it mentally (by running the old storylines), we can use it to connect with other human beings who also experience this feeling. These common experiences are bridges that link us to other people and are a basis for growing empathy. Anyway she explains it much better in the video i linked to.

    I really recommend her stuff- it's from a Buddhist perspective, but really it's mind training. I've found the techniques very helpful in calming me down and reducing stress.
    Squire likes this.
  11. madman

    madman Member


    How did I go multiple 100+ periods w/o PMO? Thanks for asking. It helps me to rehash it.

    They were not consecutive. It was more like 100+ days. Then 20 days. Then 30 days. 2 days. 1 day. 100+. 3. 2. 0. 0. 0. 30 days. 100+ days. Binging for days.

    I think it helped to not keep track of the number of days, and not look at it all the time. I also got so low I was sick of acting out, so the thought of it turned my stomach. I was to the end of my rope so to speak. I had hit bottom. Or so I thought. The only way was up.

    I used to track the number of 'good' days religiously, but it got to where it seemed it was setting me up for failure looking at the tracker all the time. I obsessed over it.

    Like, on day 32, wow, how long am I going to go before I PMO again? Can I make it to 50?

    Of course I didn't.

    When I stopped thinking about it so much, I did better, even though I still had a tracker I could refer to on my cell phone. I could check it any time I wanted.

    During those 100+ periods I would occasionally glance at it every few weeks and then try and forgot about it. If I could geniunely forget about it, it helped. It was when I started obsessing about it, I gave in and PMO'd.

    I still couldn't help look at it every few weeks though because I wanted to know how I was doing.

    After so many time of 100+, and then PMO, I gave up. Frustrated, I began binging out, and that is where I am at today.

    I have convinced myself it's not so bad really, so I PMO, and then feel crappy for days. Weeks.

    I truly am a madman. The self destructive behavior I indulge in may do me in.

    I glad you find enjoyment in my screen name. No one has ever complemented me on it. I secretly like it too ! :)

    What a beautiful thing you shared about your faith. Wow. It touched my heart in a big way. Christians piss me off a lot (excuse me for the expletive) ... and I am one of them. I spend a lot of time angry at myself.

    But Christianity in its purity is a beautiful thing. Thank you !

    I struggle to believe life can be good, free of PMO. It has pretty much destroyed me. My mind is trashed.

    You've given me so much to chew on. Wow. Thank you.

    Blessings to you. Thank you for sharing.
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  12. GreyHeron

    GreyHeron Active Member

    Squire, Thank you for calling by my journal. I like the reasoning behind both your name and the title of your journal. You have some really solid ideas that executed honestly should bring relief from our common affliction.
    Reading HTK's footer I presumed that the question was how well can you bear to sit in a cell for 4 hours without medication? I would say that I always score poorly on that and can only perceive that I ever would.

    I Look Forward to following your progress brother
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  13. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    With "no meditation" im looking to cut out all subgroups of attention exercises and other exercises like:

    Vipassana,metta,energy work,self inquiry, breathing focus meditation, mantra meditation, thought observation meditation

    These things in the end are also a distraction just like pulling out a smartphone on the toilet.
    Its mostly an extra clause for people who have lots of practice with meditating (100h+). I noticed in myself that for me on the DoF scale i go from duh to high anxiety when I dont allow myself to meditate.
    So when you sit there, instead of the old saying watch your thoughts pass by, you have to be your thoughts for 4 hours 100% immersed in thinking. This will rate your quality of thoughts (spiral dynamics level (google spiral dynamics colors if you wanna know more about this) new agers call it "vibration") instead of your capability to detach from your thoughts which in my opinion has been irrelevant for DoF, as it does not rate core beliefs (i.e someone who believes the world is a scary place will have a much harder time with the 4h, but he might be much better than another person who has a meh attitude if he can track his breath very well but this distorts the result too heavily, its non-indicative and also can be a huge factor that just needs to go..keyword "spiritual bypassing" )
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  14. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member


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  15. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Awesome that you made it through and that all of Canada is cheering for you! :)
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  16. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    This is what I call the eyes glazing over. And, yup, p-subs and fapping take us back to P eventually.

    I do it all for myself. I've learned to be selfish in the right way, you might say. I didn't do it for my wife, or my marriage (which was shit because of my cheating), I only worried about getting myself healthy. I think this is important, because when we do it for others, we are saying "I don't count. My wants and needs take a back seat to everyone else." I have found that when I do things for myself that I am more open to the needs of others and more understanding of what God really is, and means, in my life. Just my thoughts on things.
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  17. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Well said
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  18. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    Milestones like that are often the point where relapses happen. The reasons are:

    -evaluations of benefits happen (which often are underwhelming as the process is slow)
    -you want to reward yourself and P is the reward
    -theres often a part in us that wants to feel as much shame as it can so what better way than to blow it up on such a day.

    Dont worry too much about it and get back on
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  19. HowToKapow

    HowToKapow Turtles smell nice

    One or multiple of the following reasons:

    -There is a subconscious part that believes permanent quitting isnt possible and it doesnt want to fall from high up
    - A part doesnt feel deserving of permanent quitting even if it was possible
    -a part is stuck in shame and it wants to reexperience as much shame as possible
    -a part feels like its needs wont be met upon quitting
    -a part feels like its needs are not met right now and wants to sabotage out of spite
    - a part identifies with a persona whose main pillar is continuous P use

    Usually its all of the above haha
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  20. rami

    rami New Member

    why why why My man
    I was reading your journal and know I feel like somebody hit me in the face real hard.

    there is another way of counting, instead of counting how many day since your last relapse, count how many relapses in a month.
    and at my count you have a 1 or 2 a month rate. and that's fairly good,
    well it's better than mine which is about 4 a month.
    this way you can keep track of your long term progress and not focusing on the short term milestones, maybe it can help you with your post-milestones relapses

    another thing which might be tricky and risky ; does your wife know about your addiction.
    I don't know what kind of relationship or person she is but some times she can really help, or they say so.
    because it get the matter out of the unsociable secretive mode.
    and if she is not the understanding type have you considered telling a breathing human being about it , maybe a friend or religious teacher ware you attend

    p.s thank you for your support, yes it is Arabic
    I changed the footing
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