(A model for) The cause of the decline of the supreme energy aka "powers"

Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by ivar123, May 18, 2014.

  1. ivar123

    ivar123 New Member

    Hello mates! I think I've got this amazing psuedoscience sorted out...
    Basically: DA high/flow = DA availability + high energy levels (+ DA stimulation)

    Some backround...
    So I've been on this ship a long time. Even before the NoFap community. The first time I started, I didn't fap for over a year. I got the "powers", I felt superhuman! You have to have felt the "powers" yourself to relate to this NoFap glossary. BUT... what I realized was, as you may have, that the "glow" fades away after some time (amount of time is individual). Things weren't as bad as before, but the constant DA high was definitely missing. Since then I've been trying to figure out how the powers come about and what the components of it where. What I observed was:

    1. Energy (basically baseline DA) have a Use it or lose it mechanism.
    When stimulated, it returns. If not used, the body adapts.
    You can easily recognize it if you've ever started regular running or weight lifting (or sex which returns with massive energy - the biggest natural stimulant is probably libido)

    2. DA availability =
    + No hyperstimulation (= any stimulation that skips a natural refractory period) like porn & drugs
    + DA wired to the specific stimulation executed during high (in this case socialisation)
    - This is what you fix when you stop porn. You cut out hyperstimulation and you wire your brain to release DA when you socialize instead of fapping)


    The first weeks into NoFap, the energy (libido) has been stimulated from regular fapping, and is returning in vast quantities. When the brain have adjusted to proper DA wiring (by socializing enough), you will feel that superhuman feeling when socializing. It's way too vast to not feel it in general either. However, after some time, although DA wiring is proper, the libido is gone (unless you've stimulated it) and that is why everything feels "normal" again. The glow has vanished.

    DA high/flow = DA availability + high energy (+ DA stimulation)
    Because you have stopped watching porn, this can be simplified. Hyperstimulation is gone and only proper DA wiring is left within DA availability. DA stimulation is constant and balanced. In a social context this means:
    Powers = Correct DA wiring + energy (libido)

    So to reactivate the powers you have to re-raise the energy lvls which is done by stimulation (Use it or lose it mechanism)
    (Note: When I was a workaholic, I was able to stimulate the energy lvls through work). If libido is the stimulant:
    - Either have sex (Best option for libido, also reinforces proper DA wiring. This gave me way bigger glow than NoFap)
    - Fap without porn to stimulate libido and then re-wire DA to socializing (don't fap) (without porn because it's easier to rewire DA later). The more frequent fapping, the higher libido (-> powers) after stopping and proper wiring. (I've done this multiple times)

    Just to be clear. For a DA stimulant to be a "energy stimulant" (raise baseline lvl of DA) it has to be intense/draining. Libido (ejaculation) and running have refractory periods and fit to that description. (After running and ejaculation, opiods are released which dampens DA) "Studies show exercise increases dopamine receptors": http://www.reuniting.info/node/7200

    As this stems from reading aswell as experience, don't forget this scientific method to evade confirmation bias. To "prove" a statement, one does his best to disprove the statement. Only when all attempts fail should the statement gain credibility. Any questions or criticism are welcome.
     
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  2. Cozmo

    Cozmo Member

    can you make a chart flow for this Idea?
    I liked the overall flow :)
     
  3. valkyrieX

    valkyrieX New Member

    Seconded.

    I like where you are going with this and understand the concepts but the process seems a little jumbled.
     
  4. CidGuerreiro

    CidGuerreiro Active Member

    I'm confused... you're suggesting masturbation without porn raises your libido? 'Cause whenever I masturbate too much (even without porn) I feel zombified as fuck later on. Not phisically tired, but emotionally numbed down to the point where I don't give a shit to anything or anyone (basically the same mindset I had at the top of my addiction).

    I've noticed that masturbating to orgasm (without porn) every now and then keeps me closer to "superpowers" than full abstinence, but I'm not sure I'm following your train of thought here.
     
  5. valkyrieX

    valkyrieX New Member

    This is what he said.

    To masturbate and then to abstain again for a while. Not to indulge in it. Didn't mention how long to abstain though, but I think he just means whenever you hit a plateau with the 'superpowers'.
     
  6. nofappin

    nofappin New Member

    what is DA?
     
  7. EFS White

    EFS White Member

    I would love for you to expand on this theory as well. Sounds intriguing.

    I am sure you are familiar with the study of serum testosterone levels and how they rebound after ejaculation (from their lowest level to significantly above baseline 7 days later, then retreating to baseline levels), as well as the normalization of DeltaFosB within 14 days of last stimulation. These two seem to play a role, no? Just as food for thought in formulating the hypothesis at hand.

    Qi Gong medicine references several bio-rhythm cycles, the most significant ones being basically the moon cycle (at 28 days) and two others, which are, I believe, 11 and 33 days. These sound like they could play a role as well.

    From my own experience: I felt a significant peak of confidence and what you may want to call "powers" about 20 days into my first reboot/abstinence, then a long flatline, then another wave of confidence starting about 70/80 days in — after which I relapsed.

    At any rate, this sounds like a great and workable approach. Please do follow up on this.
     
  8. Striveforpurity

    Striveforpurity All praise and glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Masturbation is never a good thing... even without porn.
     
  9. Red_Raja

    Red_Raja New Member

    1. What is DA

    2. I kind of agree with the concept of the model as this is my experience as well, but I would never substitute masturbation with or without porn just to acquire superpowers. It should be real rewiring or sex and nothing else IMO.

    3. If you want to maintain the powers, but you also want to fix PIED - you will have to go through a reboot and rewiring. Rewiring is crucial but I think if done too early its a bit harmful, or at least makes it more difficult. Returning to baseline then building a new with vanilla stimulation seems better for the brain and simplifies the process.

    4. Use it or lose it is arguable, as sometimes you go 90 days then your libido comes back after you acquired a taste for vanilla stimulation and your body realizes you haven't had an orgasm in a LONG time.
     
  10. ivar123

    ivar123 New Member

    Wow. I'm pleased with your co-operation. Finally a forum where this model can be shared, criticised and benefit people.

    Hehe funny you should mention that. I actually do have a chart. Some more backround :p :
    I used to have mild depression and social anxiety. I struggled with the concept of happiness and well-being for quite some time back then. I observed the peaks and lows of the body. I cannot describe the altitude of the highest high your body has to offer!
    I eventually made a chart that encompasses more than this concept. It's not that complicated but I'm afraid you won't be able to relate to it as it's mostly anecdotal. I've put many hours into it and it has given me understanding for the ultimate highs. It involves things like bodily maintenance, cognitive dissonance free philosophy, mindfulness (Mind) etc. Shout if you want me to share it anyway :)

    I'm glad you've noticed that. Elaboration:
    You masturbate and it raises your libido. But you've reinforced the DA response to your hand and your room. If you keep masturbating, libido will be high but it will not respond to the outside world but to your hand and the enviroment of masturbation. You've become the dreaded zombie.

    (Powers = Correct DA wiring + energy (libido))
    What you've done is that you stimulated your energy, but you sacrificed your wiring. After a couple of days of NoFap, hopefully you've managed to adjust the DA response to socializing. But more importantly, the libido will return (high). The body will practically calibrate the DA wiring itself as long as you don't fap. The libido (a host of chemicals that was meant to go to masturbation) is now activated to the DA response that you give them (socialization). Powers!

    If I go celibate?
    DA response will be OK, but no stimulation of energy = no energy = no powers.
    Celibacy = no passion cycle (Use it or lose it)...

    How many days into NoFap will I get the powers then?
    When the passion cycle reaches it's end (http://www.reuniting.info/passion_cycle). [You can easily experiment with this yourself as I've done] e.g.:
    If you masturbate every other day, you've made the passion cycle 2 days long. On the second day of NoFapping, you will get the energetic urge to masturbate (which do not feel energetic at all). After that, your glow will grow and last depending on...

    How much glow?
    The more intense stimulation, the more intense will it return and the longer it will last. That is to say that if you watch porn it will come back bigger than w/o porn but needless to say the wiring will take longer. This is why when you first stopped watching porn, you had powers for about 2 weeks. But now, when you masturbate w/o porn (once) and then wear out the cycle, it won't last as long as that.

    DA is Dopamine, mate!
    T is testosterone
    PRL is prolactin
    etc


    The study of T lvls, although often mentioned in NoFap circles, is very much criticised. A chinese group at a not-so-high-status university conducted it if i recall correctly. For it to be put against my model, you have to know how often the participants masturbated before the experiment. (See above) This is to know how long the passion cycle was to start with. However, the testosterone DID rise, if the time dimension is ruled out, I guess is is of some value. I'm not convinced of very much from that study.

    Never heard of those cycles. The passion cycle is somewhat covered above. The point being that it encompasses all the cycles of libido.

    Did you engage in any sport/work/anything exciting day 70/80 ? ...

    1. Dopamine
    2. I've had that view for some time, but I'm getting bored of not dominating when socializing. Especially w/ females. I'm going to put the year(s?) that I put down to polish this model to use. But I can see where you're coming from.
    3. Although I don't preach using porn as an energy stimulator. If one decides to do so, the point is that the reboot does not take long. It isn't really a full reboot. It's just the DA. I'm talking about masturbating and then waiting for the powers, not building it up to a hard-case DA wiring.
    4. I suppose you're talking about the NoFap stories. A brain reboot is involved. A flatline is involved. I haven't looked up the science of flatlines. Although
    "after you acquired a taste for vanilla stimulation and your body realizes you haven't had an orgasm in a LONG time." this can be interpreted as a USE and return.

    Just curious, anyone here from Sweden?
     
  11. bossman

    bossman Member

    Holy shit, this is spot on...I've always wondered about this.

    After fapping (sometimes to porn) every day for 2 months and then suddenly abstaining for a couple weeks, on about the 8th day, I literally felt like I was on cocaine. EVERYTHING was pleasurable; taking a dump was suddenly a genuinely fun activity. Then, the "glow," as you describe it, which would be the perfect term (eyesight actually changes; colors become more vivid, and everything literally has a glow visually), goes away after a few days.

    SUPER interesting stuff, thanks for sharing man!
     
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  12. valkyrieX

    valkyrieX New Member

    Could you share that chart you already have?

    And could you also explain exactly how to apply this practically? I get the theory and you posted some practical examples but I'm still struggling on how to apply it to my situation. How would a person doing noFap and is celibate maintain their superpowers?
     
  13. Andress

    Andress New Member

    I didn't know they decline.So you end up feeling like shit again after you recover 100%?
    What would be the point of rebooting if this is true then?
     
  14. nomorefapalexander

    nomorefapalexander New Member

    Too much mental masturbation guys. Just eliminate all masturbation and find a girl.
     
  15. ivar123

    ivar123 New Member

    Thank YOU for sharing. I'd like to encourage everyone with similiar experiences to share them. It would be such a waste of well-being for this community if everyone just makes NoFap = "NoDAhigh"

    Well, you feel a lot less shitty, your mind isn't obsessed with the penetration of women. E.g. you get rid of "excess" anxiety around people. As porn wires DA only to ejaculation, the only thing on ones mind during socialization is penetration (I was very addicted). Which leads to frustration.
    But then again, when recovered (w/o energy), you're like an 80 year old w/o a functioning libido. The socialization becomes somewhat enjoyable, but not really a high. So I guess it's your choice to make. If you want the highs or if you just want to lose the excess anxiety/frustration.
    Ultimately, I don't want you to take my word for it. This is my experience. Try long-term celibacy yourself.


    Only sex will do it (with a girl). If you don't want a girlfriend (like me) one can only raise energy to an extent with physical play. Nowhere near the glow. This may be because I just have naturally lower DA levels but I can imagine a lot of the people here have likewise.

    Full chart: http://postimg.org/image/oaqch699d/

    The whole point is that you won't get the highs if you're celibate because celibacy doesn't regulate DA in that particular way. Like I said before, this is something you have to realize yourself perhaps (that long-term celibacy isn't paradise)

    The most important is to understand the theory so you can create a balance. In practice, you have to have a balance. You have to balance your "ability" or "rate" to rewire and your energy stimulation. That is if your stimulation is masturbation, because every time you fap you have to "unwire" it. I don't know if I'm being clear, considering the terminology...

    The ideal stimulation period is the period after the nocturnal emission. That's when the passion cycle has worn out. Remember the nocturnal emissions you had at maybe week 2 into NoFap? That week was the best of your life wasn't it? To fap after nocturnal emissions is to fap after the passion cycle has worn out, and therefore you restart the passion cycle and you can ride again. The more frequent fapping, the more glow when you stop.

    An error I made before was fapping post-nocturnal emissions period plus extra fapping every now and then. It didn't work as the extra stimulation was to much rewiring to do. My DA response was mostly to my bed. But boy did the world glow when I stopped.

    1. Understand the theory.
    2. Fap when passion cycle is gone to restart it. I recommend waiting a day or two after NE to enjoy the opiods.
    3. Balance your bad-wiring (lone masturbation) with good wiring (socialization)
     
  16. Andress

    Andress New Member

     
  17. valkyrieX

    valkyrieX New Member

    Thanks for the response.

    I haven't had any NE yet so I guess I'm still in the passion cycle, which I can believe cause I still feel great for the most part. I've just been having some low, very low, mood days which worried me a little but I've now recognised the root of those moods now and it is not about DA but rather a thought that has been weighing on my mind.
     
  18. ivar123

    ivar123 New Member

    Those things stimulates your energy and DA response would be ok. Socialization would be enjoyable at most. But definitely no DA HIGH (powers)

    I've been there. I don't know if the chart is visible but one aspect is cognitive dissonance free mindset/philosophy

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
     
  19. Mart71

    Mart71 Guest

    "DA HIGH (powers)"

    Won't this once again lead to an abused reward system? Since you are looking to get high on dopanine, which might again burn out DA receptors and all that other jazz you just got rid off?
     
  20. ivar123

    ivar123 New Member

    No. For receptors to "burn out", you have to have a hedonistic approach as well as artificial stimulation. In this context:
    Artificial stimulation = That which ignores a refractory period (e.g porn)
    Natural stimulation = That which does not ignore the refractory period (e.g sex/masturbation)

    A refractory period is natures way of "resting" the receptors. It's you brains way of regulating pleasure. Otherwise every DA stimulation including food would be "bad".

    Food: You eat, you get full for a while, you eat, you get full for a while.
    Sex: You have sex, you finish and want to abstain for a while, you have sex, you finish and want to abstain for a while.
    Porn: You fap, you fap again much sooner than you would have sex, you fap once more as long as it's novel, ignoring the RP does the "burning out"
    Drugs: you consume, you consume, you consume
     

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